a Sewar cross-dressing as a Badik?

[Moshah]

Hi again gentlemen...

Presented here was an unconfirmed, but could be quite an interesting case. Was this piece really a badik, or it is actually a sewar?

I found out that the spine of the blade (4th pix) was rather thick, something quite unusual for a badik, IMHO. I might be wrong, but that is how i feel about it.

Honest opinions are most welcomed. Hope we can learn much more with each other again

[Sajen]

Clearly sewar!

[David]

That was my thought as well. Who implied that this might be a Badik to you?

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by David

That was my thought as well. Who implied that this might be a Badik to you?

The dress it comes with...

Still, with this cross-dressing, is this a good, average joe kinda sewar?

Pardon my knowledge, but is there anything clearer than the thick spine, to differentiate a sewar and a badik?

[David]

Both Badiks and Sewars come in a range of sheath styles. I see nothing in this sheath which would lead me to call this a cross-dressed sewar. The blade and hilt seem to clearly ID this as a sewar.

[Sajen]

Hello Moshah, could be a Malay sewar IMHO. Will post pictures of my sewar collection and as well from my badik collection that you can see the differents.

Regards,

Detlef

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by David

Both Badiks and Sewars come in a range of sheath styles. I see nothing in this sheath which would lead me to call this a cross-dressed sewar. The blade and hilt seem to clearly ID this as a sewar.

I was told that the sheath was not original to the blade. And usually for this kind of sheath it was supposed to be for badik. It could be my misunderstanding, and it could also be that the classification of badik over here in W Malaysia would slightly differs from its other neighboring cultures.

Since David has mentioned about the broader range of sheath styles, I think we can already conclude it is a sewar all right. However, this is what I initially thought on how a sewar's sheath would be...

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Moshah, could be a Malay sewar IMHO. Will post pictures of my sewar collection and as well from my badik collection that you can see the differents.

I'd be honored to, Detlef...Thanks for the kind gestures...

[David]

Originally Posted by Moshah

Since David has mentioned about the broader range of sheath styles, I think we can already conclude it is a sewar all right. However, this is what I initially thought on how a sewar's sheath would be...

That would indeed be just one style Moshah. Try the search function here or do a google image search under "sewar knife" and you will encounter many more variations and styles.

[Moshah]

I've just did that, David. I've seen a lot of styles...

But if we google "badik kelantan", you'll find these style of sheath aplenty.

Or it could even what they called a sewar is, back there...that was really confusing...

[Sajen]

Hello Moshah,

here at first the pictures of my sewar collection, still missing some forms, for example the form you have shown in post #7.

[Sajen]

And here the pictures of my badik collection, on the complete right a rare Selayer badik.

[T. Koch]

Beautiful collection, Detlef! I'm crazy about the scabbard of the sewar on the far right. Also really into the blade of the badik on the the far right - long, slim and central ridge all the way!

Thanks for putting them up!


All the best, - Thor

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

Beautiful collection, Detlef! I'm crazy about the scabbard of the sewar on the far right. Also really into the blade of the badik on the the far right - long, slim and central ridge all the way!

Thanks for putting them up!


All the best, - Thor

Hello Thor,

thank you. The sewar on the far right I "love" as well, very nice carvings to the wooden parts and smooth patina. When I received it once the blade have had a strong clove smell and don't lose it after all the years.

The badik at the far right is from the Selayer island, a similar example is shown by Zonneveld on page 74, pic. 286 and was discussed here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=badik

Regards,

Detlef

[asomotif]

I have to step in and change the direction this thread is heading.

I Detlef posts more of his wonderfull collection we will all drewl on our keyboards and he will cause shortcircuiting on a worldwide scale

As for Moshah question. his example is clearly a sewar blade/handle.
The scabbard is not very tyipical of sewars, but probably of a later date.

I checked my picture files and found this one which I sadly sold last year in search of cash. This example mor qualifies for the question.... :

SEWAR or BADEK,, what do you think ?

Best regards,
Willem

[kai]

Hello Willem,

Originally Posted by asomotif

I checked my picture files and found this one which I sadly sold last year in search of cash. This example mor qualifies for the question.... :

SEWAR or BADEK,, what do you think ?

My vote would be badik.

The short vestigial fuller of the blade may suggest Sumatran origin/influence but that's about it; no sewar IMHO.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by asomotif

I have to step in and change the direction this thread is heading.

I Detlef posts more of his wonderfull collection we will all drewl on our keyboards and he will cause shortcircuiting on a worldwide scale

As for Moshah question. his example is clearly a sewar blade/handle.
The scabbard is not very tyipical of sewars, but probably of a later date.

I checked my picture files and found this one which I sadly sold last year in search of cash. This example mor qualifies for the question.... :

SEWAR or BADEK,, what do you think ?

Best regards,
Willem

Hi Willem,

first, thank you!

Regarding your example i would say sewar with badik hilt. Maybe the original was broken and someone here or in Indonesia give it the badik hilt?

Regards,

Detlef

[kai]

Hello Moshah,

Pardon my knowledge, but is there anything clearer than the thick spine, to differentiate a sewar and a badik?

IMHO the thick integral bolster is a prominent but not sufficient requirement for something being a sewar/sewaih.

Your blade does seem to be a genuine antique sewar. To be frank, the heavy pitting seems to be from excessive etching (and/or neglect). If it were not looking like a pretty much lost case, I would think about reworking/repolishing/staining the blade. I don't think this is feasible with this piece though.

The fittings (including the hilt) look newly crafted to me and may well be Malay "repair" attempts.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Willem,


My vote would be badik.

The short vestigial fuller of the blade may suggest Sumatran origin/influence but that's about it; no sewar IMHO.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

by the hilt and maybe by the cross piece of the scabbard I would agree but the blade is more like the one from a sewar IMHO. But frankly said I never have seen a similar example.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Your blade does seem to be a genuine antique sewar. To be frank, the heavy pitting seems to be from excessive etching (and/or neglect). If it were not looking like a pretty much lost case, I would think about reworking/repolishing/staining the blade. I don't think this is feasible with this piece though.

Agree, I also would repolishing the blade, it will look much better after this.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Your blade does seem to be a genuine antique sewar. To be frank, the heavy pitting seems to be from excessive etching (and/or neglect). If it were not looking like a pretty much lost case, I would think about reworking/repolishing/staining the blade. I don't think this is feasible with this piece though.

Agree, I also would repolishing the blade, it will look much better after this.

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by asomotif

If Detlef posts more of his wonderfull collection we will all drewl on our keyboards and he will cause shortcircuiting on a worldwide scale

Couldn't agree more to this statement. It looks like a beauty pageant already!!!

Thanks for all the trouble you have in order to guide me, but in the way it seems to be a well mouth-watering eye feast as well...

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by kai

Your blade does seem to be a genuine antique sewar. To be frank, the heavy pitting seems to be from excessive etching (and/or neglect). If it were not looking like a pretty much lost case, I would think about reworking/repolishing/staining the blade. I don't think this is feasible with this piece though.

The fittings (including the hilt) look newly crafted to me and may well be Malay "repair" attempts.

Regards,
Kai

Dear Kai,

Now I think I've got it right already.

Looking at it, definitely the edge was heavily corroded. To commissioned a reworking is a futile effort, I afraid, as the sewar's edge would be taken away too much from its original body, and that would not proportioned with the thick spine.

The hilt, FYI, was a white akar bahar. And I am also in the thinking that it is new and I believe you are right.

But then again I would like to ask, is the polished form (the clean, steel looks) is really a desirable state on any sewar? I've seen numerous examples on the net was in that state...

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by asomotif

As for Moshah question. his example is clearly a sewar blade/handle.
The scabbard is not very tyipical of sewars, but probably of a later date.

Hi, Willem.

Yeah I think the scabbard was a dealer's mismatch.

The fitment was telling me the same thing...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Moshah

Looking at it, definitely the edge was heavily corroded. To commissioned a reworking is a futile effort, I afraid, as the sewar's edge would be taken away too much from its original body, and that would not proportioned with the thick spine.

The hilt, FYI, was a white akar bahar. And I am also in the thinking that it is new and I believe you are right.

But then again I would like to ask, is the polished form (the clean, steel looks) is really a desirable state on any sewar? I've seen numerous examples on the net was in that state...

Hello Moshah,

don't be afraid to do it byself, I have done it several times. Use sandpaper, first maybe 400 and go down to 1000 but do it with oil, you only get dirty fingers by this. After you have removed the corrosion etch it with hot vinegar. The complete procedure will take some time but is worth the effort. By this you can carefully reshape the edge also.

Regarding the hilt material I would say what I can see by your pictures that t is molar and not akar bahar.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Moshah

Hi, Willem.

Yeah I think the scabbard was a dealer's mismatch.

The fitment was telling me the same thing...

The dress have a Malay look to my eyes, maybe of later date but not very recent IMHO.

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by Sajen

don't be afraid to do it byself, I have done it several times...

Regarding the hilt material I would say what I can see by your pictures that t is molar and not akar bahar.

Hi Detlef,

Thanks for the tips.

Well, the hilt looks like molar but it is akar bahar indeed. It is light, and there is a small hole on top which nesting some jagged thick, hairy-kind of material like braided ropes. I don't think molar would produce this.

White akar bahar was indeed even harder to find than sea ivory IMHO. It could be a pleasant surprise if it was an older hilt. Since it was brand new, it would be less valuable and "inanimate" - in terms of the Malay folks belief of it's otherworldly perks...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Moshah

Hi Detlef,

Thanks for the tips.

Well, the hilt looks like molar but it is akar bahar indeed. It is light, and there is a small hole on top which nesting some jagged thick, hairy-kind of material like braided ropes. I don't think molar would produce this.

White akar bahar was indeed even harder to find than sea ivory IMHO. It could be a pleasant surprise if it was an older hilt. Since it was brand new, it would be less valuable and "inanimate" - in terms of the Malay folks belief of it's otherworldly perks...

You hold it in your hands and when you know both materials I have no doubt that you are correct. Also when it is new it's still a very rare material.

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Also when it is new it's still a very rare material.

Indeed it is but sea ivory still commands higher price over here


Your 4th badik from the left, was it sea ivory? I can see a slight pinggang / waist somewhere near the base before it started to get back to shape until tapering at the tip. Is that true or just my imagination?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Moshah

Your 4th badik from the left, was it sea ivory? I can see a slight pinggang / waist somewhere near the base before it started to get back to shape until tapering at the tip. Is that true or just my imagination?

I think what you see is imagination. And it is what I believe hippo ivory. See the close up from the hilt.

Regards,

Detlef