Pedang Lurus

Bill M · 8th September 2007, 12:26 AM

This Pedang has an interesting horn ensuite that is dark on one side and light on the other. I have never seen anything like this. Is it possible that somehow the sun can bleach horn? Or could it be something else?

The piece has a very powerful feeling about it. Feels like someone really treasured it.

Lew · 8th September 2007, 06:33 PM

Bill that is a nice old piece you have lovely patina to. Here is one that I picked up years ago as one of my first ebay purchases.

Lew

Henk · 8th September 2007, 06:38 PM

I was told by a dutch collector that the buffalo horn has variation in color.
The color goes from black, that we all know to green like the color of jade. The black horn is the most cheapest horn. The green horn is the most expensive part.
Although I'm not an expert on horn and colors I think the color is going from black to grey, then light brown and ends in green.
I've seen a balinese keris in the collection of this collector with a green horn scabbard and ukiran. A magnificent piece.

spiral · 8th September 2007, 07:51 PM

Lovley piece Bill, Henks right buffalo horn varies in colour & often even within same horn, the redish, blonde, yellowish & green shades are much rarer & getting even more so today due to modern Indian & Philipeane farming methods. {genetic seltion, antibiotics, food additives & killed at an early age.}

Ive hade many kukri handles that were yellow or green on one side & black on the other. { as well as all green, all yellow etc.]

Often they are sold as rhino on kukri , pesh, Jambiya & Indonesian weapons,...... Buyer beware.... Still no Cities paperwork needed!

A horn importer told me that about 1 in 1000 Indian buffalo horn is blonde, I dont know whether thats right, its seems an approximate I guess, but it certanly seems like it from all ive seen..

Pre. 1930s colour variation seemed much commoner, from what I can see.

Spiral

VANDOO · 9th September 2007, 02:21 AM

SEVERAL YEARS AGO THE GREENIES IN AUSTRALIA DECIDED THE WILD BUFFALOW WERE NOT NATIVE AND SET UP A MUSTER. ALL THE ANIMALS THEY COULD CATCH WERE ROUNDED UP AND KILLED OFF REMOVING A SPECIES FAVORED BY HUNTERES. I TALKED TO ONE OF THE GUYS WHO WORKED THE MUSTER AND HE SAID THERE WERE SOME NICE BLONDE HORNS AS WELL AS THE USUAL BLACK ONES BUT MOST WERE JUST DISPOSED OF. I THINK THERE IS A PLACE NEAR THE AIRPORT IN DARWIN STILL SELLING HORNS SO IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO RUN DOWN A SET OF HORNS.
THEY WOULD LIKE TO DISPOSE OF THE WILD HOGS AS THEY ARE A LOT MORE DISTRUCTIVE BUT THEY BREED FAST AND ARE TOO SMART AND WILEY TO GET RID OF THEM ENTIRELY. INTRODUCED SPECIES CAN PLAY HAVOK WITH NATIVE LIFE ESPECIALLY IF RESOURCES ARE LIMITED AS IN MANY AREAS OF AUSTRALIA.

Flavio · 9th September 2007, 12:07 PM

Hi Bill, this is a very nice piece (love the lamination!!), but seems to me that doesn't fit the classification of Van Z. for a Pedang Lurus, seems more some kind of golok or something different....

Kind regards

Bill M · 9th September 2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hi Bill, this is a very nice piece (love the lamination!!), but seems to me that doesn't fit the classification of Van Z. for a Pedang Lurus, seems more some kind of golok or something different....

Kind regards

Could be, I'll take a look at Van Z.

It was one of my first pieces and I really fell in love with it when I first got it from Rick at RSWORD. He had it on eBay and nobody bid his minumum -- about $200. This was several years ago, before the prices began their climb.

I emailed him and made an offer close to his minimum bid and he accepted. I was fascinated when I first opened the package. Somewhat by the different colors of the horn, but more so by the overall feel.

Just a really neat piece. Well loved by previous owners and now has a special place in my collection.

Bill M · 9th September 2007, 01:41 PM

I think that Henk and Spiral are right. The grey has the greater detail and was likely the side that was to the outside when worn in a sash.

This would also give the proper grip placement for a draw by the right hand when worn on the left side.

josh stout · 13th September 2007, 03:23 AM

I am a little unsure about how all the details work, but there is a ranking system to horn color in Indonesia. In wayang kulit, dark horn is fit only for crude creations and is usually seen on tourist pieces. Sometimes older ones with nicer work will be fitted with dark horn before being sold to tourists, and this is a sign that the puppet is a composite piece. The light horn is appropriate for well made wayang kulit, but there still seems to be a hierarchy. Important characters get pure blond, important characters with small roles may have mixed horn sticks of blond with a bit of dark, and minor characters such as the mother of an obscure king might have the dark horn handles.
Josh

CharlesS · 14th September 2007, 04:32 PM

I agree with Flavio, while a lovely sword, I would not classify it as a "pedang lurus". This sword appears to be more of a short slasher, which I think would better rate as a "golok" or even perhaps a "klewang".

While this sword could be viewed as have "stabbing potential", a pedang lurus is certainly a thruster first and slasher second IMO. This sword appears to be just the opposite.

Rick · 14th September 2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

I am a little unsure about how all the details work, but there is a ranking system to horn color in Indonesia. In wayang kulit, dark horn is fit only for crude creations and is usually seen on tourist pieces. Sometimes older ones with nicer work will be fitted with dark horn before being sold to tourists, and this is a sign that the puppet is a composite piece. The light horn is appropriate for well made wayang kulit, but there still seems to be a hierarchy. Important characters get pure blond, important characters with small roles may have mixed horn sticks of blond with a bit of dark, and minor characters such as the mother of an obscure king might have the dark horn handles.
Josh

Here's a nice variegated piece .

Cow or Kerbau, I don't know .

Bill M · 14th September 2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I agree with Flavio, while a lovely sword, I would not classify it as a "pedang lurus". This sword appears to be more of a short slasher, which I think would better rate as a "golok" or even perhaps a "klewang".

While this sword could be viewed as have "stabbing potential", a pedang lurus is certainly a thruster first and slasher second IMO. This sword appears to be just the opposite.

I agree also, lets just call it a kelly-wang (a Phillip Tom-ism)

CharlesS · 24th September 2007, 04:44 PM

Ironically, Bill, I just had a sword related conversation with a native of Borneo, and they actually did use the pronounciation "Kelly-wang" and not "KLE-wang". I was a little surpised and found it interesting.

kronckew · 24th September 2007, 04:57 PM

light coloured horn items: i prefer them myself.

couple of mine:

8th September 2007, 12:26 AM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Pedang Lurus This Pedang has an interesting horn ensuite that is dark on one side and light on the other. I have never seen anything like this. Is it possible that somehow the sun can bleach horn? Or could it be something else? The piece has a very powerful feeling about it. Feels like someone really treasured it. Attached Images

8th September 2007, 06:33 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill that is a nice old piece you have lovely patina to. Here is one that I picked up years ago as one of my first ebay purchases. Lew Attached Images

9th September 2007, 01:41 PM	#8
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I think that Henk and Spiral are right. The grey has the greater detail and was likely the side that was to the outside when worn in a sash. This would also give the proper grip placement for a draw by the right hand when worn on the left side. Attached Images

8th September 2007, 06:38 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I was told by a dutch collector that the buffalo horn has variation in color. The color goes from black, that we all know to green like the color of jade. The black horn is the most cheapest horn. The green horn is the most expensive part. Although I'm not an expert on horn and colors I think the color is going from black to grey, then light brown and ends in green. I've seen a balinese keris in the collection of this collector with a green horn scabbard and ukiran. A magnificent piece.

8th September 2007, 07:51 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Lovley piece Bill, Henks right buffalo horn varies in colour & often even within same horn, the redish, blonde, yellowish & green shades are much rarer & getting even more so today due to modern Indian & Philipeane farming methods. {genetic seltion, antibiotics, food additives & killed at an early age.} Ive hade many kukri handles that were yellow or green on one side & black on the other. { as well as all green, all yellow etc.] Often they are sold as rhino on kukri , pesh, Jambiya & Indonesian weapons,...... Buyer beware.... Still no Cities paperwork needed! A horn importer told me that about 1 in 1000 Indian buffalo horn is blonde, I dont know whether thats right, its seems an approximate I guess, but it certanly seems like it from all ive seen.. Pre. 1930s colour variation seemed much commoner, from what I can see. Spiral

9th September 2007, 02:21 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SEVERAL YEARS AGO THE GREENIES IN AUSTRALIA DECIDED THE WILD BUFFALOW WERE NOT NATIVE AND SET UP A MUSTER. ALL THE ANIMALS THEY COULD CATCH WERE ROUNDED UP AND KILLED OFF REMOVING A SPECIES FAVORED BY HUNTERES. I TALKED TO ONE OF THE GUYS WHO WORKED THE MUSTER AND HE SAID THERE WERE SOME NICE BLONDE HORNS AS WELL AS THE USUAL BLACK ONES BUT MOST WERE JUST DISPOSED OF. I THINK THERE IS A PLACE NEAR THE AIRPORT IN DARWIN STILL SELLING HORNS SO IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO RUN DOWN A SET OF HORNS. THEY WOULD LIKE TO DISPOSE OF THE WILD HOGS AS THEY ARE A LOT MORE DISTRUCTIVE BUT THEY BREED FAST AND ARE TOO SMART AND WILEY TO GET RID OF THEM ENTIRELY. INTRODUCED SPECIES CAN PLAY HAVOK WITH NATIVE LIFE ESPECIALLY IF RESOURCES ARE LIMITED AS IN MANY AREAS OF AUSTRALIA.

9th September 2007, 12:07 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Bill, this is a very nice piece (love the lamination!!), but seems to me that doesn't fit the classification of Van Z. for a Pedang Lurus, seems more some kind of golok or something different.... Kind regards

13th September 2007, 03:23 AM	#9
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I am a little unsure about how all the details work, but there is a ranking system to horn color in Indonesia. In wayang kulit, dark horn is fit only for crude creations and is usually seen on tourist pieces. Sometimes older ones with nicer work will be fitted with dark horn before being sold to tourists, and this is a sign that the puppet is a composite piece. The light horn is appropriate for well made wayang kulit, but there still seems to be a hierarchy. Important characters get pure blond, important characters with small roles may have mixed horn sticks of blond with a bit of dark, and minor characters such as the mother of an obscure king might have the dark horn handles. Josh

14th September 2007, 04:32 PM	#10
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	I agree with Flavio, while a lovely sword, I would not classify it as a "pedang lurus". This sword appears to be more of a short slasher, which I think would better rate as a "golok" or even perhaps a "klewang". While this sword could be viewed as have "stabbing potential", a pedang lurus is certainly a thruster first and slasher second IMO. This sword appears to be just the opposite.

24th September 2007, 04:44 PM	#13
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Ironically, Bill, I just had a sword related conversation with a native of Borneo, and they actually did use the pronounciation "Kelly-wang" and not "KLE-wang". I was a little surpised and found it interesting.

24th September 2007, 04:57 PM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	light coloured horn items: i prefer them myself. couple of mine: