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#1 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,716
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Just win another kris by epray.
![]() I don't have a clue from where this blade; maybe Sulu? ![]() Blade have silver inlays and until now I can't remember to have seen an "elephant trunk" design like this before. This kris need a lot of restoration, new asang-asang and the bands of of the handle including the binding. Jose, you would like to do it? I don't plan to restore the broken crest of the pommel since the break seems to be old and patinated. What you think? Your comments are very welcome, Detlef |
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#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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A VERY INTERESTING OLD KRIS.
![]() GIVEN THE IMPORTANCE PLACED ON LARGE BIRDS IN MANY SOCIETYS OVER THE WORLD I DO NOT SEE WHY THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO THE ENTIRE AREA MALAYSIA, INDONESIA AND THE PHILIPPINES ESPECIALLY IN MORE ANCIENT TIMES. IN THE AMERICAS THE THUNDERBIRD, EAGLE AND RAVEN ARE IMPORTANT IN MANY LEGENDS AND TRIBAL LORE AND CEREMONIES. THE MAORI NO DOUBT HAVE MANY LEGENDS OF THE MOA AND OTHER BIRDS. THE DAYAK HAVE SPECIAL BELIEFS ABOUT THE HORNBILL AND ARGUS PHESANT AND NO DOUBT OTHER BIRDS. VARIOUS BIRDS ARE USED ON MASKS AND CARVEINGS IN AFRICA AND IN NEW GUINEA. MANKIND HAS ALWAYS LIKED TO DECK THEMSELVES OUT IN FEATHERS. SO JUST TO STIR THE POT I WILL SAY IT REPRESENTS THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLE THAT ROAMS FREELY AMONG THE LANDS AND ISLANDS OF THAT PART OF THE WORLD, NOT THE ELEPHANT OR MAKARA ![]() WHILE I AM STIRRING PERHAPS THIS FORM OF HANDLE REPRESENTS A EAGLE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE LOUD AND OFTEN OBNOXIOUS COCATOO WHICH TO MY KNOWLEGE HAS NO PLACE IN TRIBAL FOLKLORE IN THE PHILIPPINES. ![]() |
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#3 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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You may be onto something Barry. I think that on Maguindanao kris the "eagle" is actually that, not the "elephant" look.
I agree that this is old, but that "eagle" is a form I have not seen much of. So I look at the inlaid okir on the blade, which looks either Maranao or Maguindanao. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
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in Mindanao and Sulu, Barry, it's the chicken. with supernatural power.
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#5 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
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So Ron you think this is the sarimanok?
By the way, Detief, you have pm......... |
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#6 | |
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not quite sure if it's chicken (sarimanok), or a sarinaga, jose. need to see the whole form... for instance, in this aprticular Maranao kris, we have a sarinaga.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13413 barry made a good point tho, regarding the importance of birds in the old belief. me and lorenz had an interesting discussion regarding this topic. perhaps he can chime in. Quote:
as far as the eagle tho: the philippines have the monkey eating eagle, or philippine eagle.. |
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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![]() Quote:
Hello Barry, interesting observation and thoughts. You mean pic. 9, correct? Regards, Detlef |
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#8 | |
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![]() Quote:
thank you for comment and email! ![]() ![]() Any thoughts about the age from this blade? Regards, Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 25th October 2012 at 05:26 PM. |
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#9 |
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Just noted that i have forgotten to upload one picture from the auction. This picture is very interesting since it seems that the tang is round.
Any thoughts? |
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
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Ps. why are they always turning around the handle the wrong way when it had been loose? ![]() ![]() |
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#11 |
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Hi Detlef.
I really like the way that the first 'luk' is so close to the ganga. It really makes the 'waves' look more natural and flowing. I look forward to seeing waht you do with it. Best gene |
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#12 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 422
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#13 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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![]() Quote:
yes, I think so. My interest is if it has to do with the age of the blade or the origin. ![]() For the second point I think that Timo give the answer. Regards, Detlef |
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#14 | |
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Location: The Netherlands
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Ofcourse, I was only joking as I crossed another recent thread with the handle the wrong way... Regards, Maurice |
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#15 | |
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I think that this is one reason what let me bid. I really can't remember to have seen such a blade before. I will keep you updated about the progress. Best regards, Detlef |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
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Well it is not really round, but slightly squarish at the ganga.
That being said, I am wondering if this might not be early 1800s. Hard to pin down. |
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#17 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,249
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Hello Detlef,
Nice score again! Quote:
Quote:
I believe that the blade originated in Sulu and that the silver inlay was added later, possibly after the blade ended up on Mindanao. Possibly Maguindanao work? Regards, Kai |
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#18 | |
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![]() Quote:
thank you. Very interesting suggestion. So I am maybe correct with my first feeling. Regards, Detlef |
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#19 |
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Yes, I have seen several of this type - need to dig out pics. Usually this design is obscured by the lower asang-asang crossing the elongated gape...
Regards, Kai |
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#20 |
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Agree, the missing asang-asang let look this part of the blade different.
I am curious to see your pictures, they will give also a clue how the asang-asang and the handle attachments have to look. Regards, Detlef |
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#21 |
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Have received the kris and have to assert that the handle is badly demaged so I have given it to my friend who is a very good wood restorer to fix the break and give back the handle the front beak while I decide to let the back beak like this. The tang is indeed squarish at the base. Now I will polish the blade.
Regards, Detlef |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Oh W
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#23 | |
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#24 |
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Just cleaned the blade and think that it was done before but very unprofessional maybe with some sort of grinding machine and now it is to seen that the inlays orginally going much more down to the tip of the blade but there only remains still to seen.
![]() ![]() Jose maybe know if this can be restored. |
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#25 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
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Ok some of the remaining engraving can be worked and replace the inlay. Areas where the grinder took out the engraved areas - no hope.
Sorry for the mixed news..... ![]() |
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#26 | |
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Location: Germany, Dortmund
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![]() Quote:
Hi Jose, no problem, thank you for open answer! ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#27 |
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The wood work at the handle is finished.
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#28 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
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Nice job. Much better and more stable than it was previously.
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#29 |
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Have received some pictures from Jose, he have finished the work at the handle. He is sure that this kris coming from Tawi-Tawi based on research he have done. Here two pictures of the excellent work he have done.
Now he want to replace the missing inlays and the kris will get a scabbard as well. |
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#30 |
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And here two pictures upon he based his opinion that this kris is from Tawi-Tawi. One is from Stone and one from Ashoka arts.
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