Keeping a keris for protection

[Pusaka]

In Indonesia a household may keep a keris to protect the family. It is said that a keris can warn its owner of danger. The keris is said to rattle, move or make noise.

I guess my question then is do you believe this and have you had any experiences of such things?

[David]

I really doubt that this would be a major reason why a household would keep a keris. There are so many other well know reasons. There have indeed been stories of particular keris (or perhaps just a particular keris) which had the ability to warn it's owner of danger by rattling in it's sheath. I can't remember the name of that keris off-hand. Perhaps someone else will. Whether or not i believe this seems unimportant to the larger question. The purpose of keris is not to act as a home alarm system.

[pakana]

Hello to all,

Indeed there are many stories associated with keris that warned their owners for dangers not only in Indonesia. I dont think that the keris owners in the past, kept their keris just for their artistic value.They believed that there is something more "inside", and that was their main purpose from the beginning of "ordering" a keris from the mpu.

We, as westerners,have an artistic aproach to the subject(plus, we have the financial ability to collect more than one in our collections).I guess in the past, the Indonesian families couldn't afford to have more than one keris(except kings,royal family..)

Now,about stories, I have a story of a friend of mine, that a thief tried to steal his motorcycle, and he claims that his keris ruttled in its sheath at that time, to warn him.Fortunately for me, he sold the keris to me


george

[PenangsangII]

I keep more than a keris at home....and believe you me, though I come from this very same keris culture, I would still regards the keris first & foremost a weapon. If by making keris as a weapon means personal home protection, then I completely agree. In the confined space of my apartment, keris is just perfect

[David]

Well, i think both of you are missing my point. When i said that there are so many other reasons for keeping a keris in a household in Indonesian cultures artistic appreciation (as seen by Western collectors) was the furthest from my mind. And Pakana, i am not sure you are correct in your assumption that families could only afford one household keris. The keris is a personal weapon and every male of a certain age would have had at least one. Many of them would not have been made by an mpu though. More likely a village pandai.
And yes Penangsang, a keris is certainly a very good close quarters weapon. However, the question at hand i believe is whether they were kept in households because of the belief that the could warn of danger by rattling in their sheaths. Again, i don't dismiss this completely a possiblity in limited cases with "special" keris, but i don't believe this is or was the norm and certainly not the "reason" for owning a keris.

[Lew]

Well here is my view . Indonesia is in a very active earthquake area so it could be possible that a keris could start rattling in it's scabbard just prior to the quake warning the owner and his family. Of course this is just my personal theory. I have always thought that the keris was more for spiritual protection of the household rather than the physical?

Lew

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Well here is my view . Indonesia is in a very active earthquake area so it could be possible that a keris could start rattling in it's scabbard just prior to the quake warning the owner and his family. Of course this is just my personal theory. I have always thought that the keris was more for spiritual protection of the household rather than the physical?

Lew

Actually, the rattler keris stories had been heard so many times and yet I have not personally been privileged to experience even once so far

However, since I am living in within the same Malay culture, that still believes in supernatural things, black magic and so on, I once used my Rojo Gundolo keris to exorcise a haunted house, and it worked. The keris is now kept in my apt just in case some wondering spirits got lost into my place, or some one purposely sends his genie to disturb my family

[pakana]

So, do you think that a specific kind of pamor is suitable for warning danger? Any thoughts?

george

[semar]

hello i think you can see about the pamor of the keris is made for protection
as an example Tambal Wengkon them say that this pamor protect the owners
and his familie but i believe when the isi is not strong enough nothing wil happen

sorry for my bad engels

[pakana]

Hi semar,

Yes it seems that wengkon pamor is suitable for protection,in the first place. But as you pointed out, if the spirit is not so strong, then it's no use.And it takes a lot of time and "affection" to the keris, in order to built up the power.

[semar]

hello pakana what you say is correct the most of the old keris you can buy a slumbering and if you whant that the keris get stronger you hef tp sacrifice and hef patience but its possible but not always sometimes the isi up to that point he can not come back

regarts semar

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by semar

hello i think you can see about the pamor of the keris is made for protection
as an example Tambal Wengkon them say that this pamor protect the owners
and his familie but i believe when the isi is not strong enough nothing wil happen

sorry for my bad engels

Yes, I agree that tambal wengkon may not be strong enough sometimes, I have one teja kinurung and still could not be used to exorcise a haunted house. Instead, Iike I said earlier in my post, rojo gundolo would stand a better chance. In the end, the owner is still the determining factor

[pakana]

"sometimes the isi up to that point he can not come back "

What do you mean with that semar?You mean that there is also a possibility for the spirit to "leave" the keris for some reason?Because someone told me also that this could happen sometimes

george

[semar]

hello George i mean that the isi or spirit how you call it sometimes the strength so far gone is that now offering ore pray can help to get it back
because the keris have for years no offerings or other things to keep its power and i will go away in the long term and you have a kris with now power
you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

[pakana]

Hello semar,

So you think that a jin and isi are completely different?Please elaborate in that difference.Thanks.

george

[David]

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

[Pusaka]

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by David

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Generally speaking, when an empu forges a keris, he would perform certain ritual such as mutih fasting, patigeni, meditation etc, and recites special prayers to imbue special power into the keris, called the "isi". In my limited knowledge, the actions undertaken by the empu is actually calling unseen being (normally Djinn) to reside in the keris, and would help the keris owner depending on the reason why the keris was ordered by the owner in the first place, i.e. commerce, protection, war etc etc. Depending on the "ilmu" of the empu. and later on the owner, the power of the "isi" or Djinn may vary from one keris to another....

Just my 0.02 cents.

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

Dear Pusaka,

I believe if you have an old keris and do not know the history of the keris, its not advisable to keep the keris at home. You will never know "who" is residing in the keris, I mean, the "isi".

In order to solve this problem, you will have to find a wiseman or a person very knowledgable in keris philosophy, and get him to communicate to the empu and the isi. How the keris should be treated, how its to be cleaned, how its supposed to be dressed, what kind of assistance can the isi give and everything there is to know. Only then you will be able to decide whether an old keris should be in your collection or otherwise

[pakana]

Dear Penangsang,

You are right.But in order for the keris to "reveal" itself to a wiseman or magus, it has to be strong enough, just like semar said. Otherwise it is impossible for it to accomplice that task.

And I was told that the "resident" inside is not something invited "in" to stay, but the sum of the thoughts,intention, and (part) of spirit of the maker.So when you "communicate" with a keris, actually you communicate with the spirit of the long dead empu..freaky!!

george

[PenangsangII]

For an old neglected keris, yes, the uninvited guest may reside in, but for a spiritually well maintained keris, the isi, prayers and the spirit of the empu can be called upon (menayuh / pal).

Being able to communicate with the original empu is not supposed to be freaky but a memorable learning experience. You will be closer to the keris than ever before, and the isi or djinn or whoever the resident of the keris will be happy to help you out since you can now treat your keris as previously carried out by the original empu and owner.

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Well Penangsang, i didn't actually "discount" anything. What i wrote was that they "don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to".
This is not to say that a Djinn could not get into a keris either, but i am not convinced that this particular type of spirit is the same that empus once embued into keris.
It should also be kept in mind that very,very few of the keris (if any) in most of our merger collections (yes, some of you lucky devils are exceptions) were actually made by empus. Most of even the good ones were probably made by highly skilled village smiths. Whether these were given the same type of spiritual attention as an empu made piece is highly debateable, but this doesn't mean that these keris do not hold energy from other sources such as the continued practice of holding and honoring the keris by it's owners passed down over generations.

[Pusaka]

I know some of you guys have loads of keris, hundreds! If you believe this then your house must have several spirits either helping or trying to kill you

You dont necessarily need an adept to tell you if a keris is good or not, some people put the keris under their pillow when they first get it. If their dreams are bad they simply get the keris out of their house.

Any of you ever own a keris you thought was bad?

I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by semar

you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

I think there is a forth which is a current which flows through the blade. Like the mantra it wont last for long if its not renewed.

Is pamor type really a system of signposting the type of isi within the keris?

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?

I believe that the literal translation is "fill up", but of course, as with all things keris, once you apply it to this sphere of thinking that definition is not quite as telling as one might like.
Personally i have never met a keris that i have thought has "bad" energy or spirits. I would say that this is because of my close-minded Western way of looking at the universe, however, i happen to be a true believer in the unseen worlds and do not hold the general Western concept that all this is merely superstition and nonsense. But i have over 40 keris in my house and i have never had any trouble with any of them. Some i am sure i can sense energy in, some i have personally put energy into, while others seem more quite. All of them are appreciated though, treated with respect and oiled and incensed regularly. Maybe that is what keeps them on there best behavior.

[Pusaka]

David,

Your right there are many things you could fill up a keris with, oil, sent,spirits, wishes etc

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

[pakana]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

David,

Your right there are many things you could fill up a keris with, oil, sent,spirits, wishes etc

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

Oh yes, he is true

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

The man certain does seem to have some real skills, though i wonder if the movement in the keris isn't more a testament to his power rather than the keris.

[Pusaka]

Yes your probably right, the keris moved at the same time his hand moved across the edge of the table so I think he is using his sakti/prana to do this.
Some skill he has got there

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by David

The man certain does seem to have some real skills, though i wonder if the movement in the keris isn't more a testament to his power rather than the keris.

It's the combination between the keris & the owner's powers

The idea of forging or owning a keris in the olden days was compatibility between the owner & the keris. It's some kind of an alter ego of the owner.