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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon ,England
Posts: 80
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Hi all
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Merseyside, UK
Posts: 222
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The words are Bism Ellah Ar-Rahman Ar-rahim. "In the name of God the Compassionate, the merciful."
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon ,England
Posts: 80
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Thanks Aqtai thats exellent
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,083
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I have heard of the stamped marks being referred to as "eyelash" or "sickle" marks. They could be armoury marks from an unknown armoury. Not much is known on armoury markings for Indian swords. The marks probably first originated as imitations of similar marks found on early European swords and I believe these marks were thought to originally to be Italian and later copied by other European smiths as marks of quality. India imported large amounts of European blades and probably associated this mark with blades of quality and themselves imitated the mark to portray quality. Jim, I am sure, can expound on these markings but this is a basic introduction.
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
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The triple dots are said to be a symbol of Tamerlane. Other than that I don't know what they mean (or the "eyelashes", let alone the straight double houndstooth thing.......hmmmmm.....eyelashes or toothy mouths? Are these seen on anything but blades? Both the triple dots and the "eyelashes" are common and widespread on swords from India to Mooroco, in my experience. The triple dots are usually in a smaller triangle, it seems to me, and I haven't seen them as little "hollow" circles, but it still looks like the same mark; 3 dots, individually struck (note the irregular orientation) but intended in an equalateral triangle. All the marks look larger and crisper and better defined than is usual; I don't neccessarily want to up and call that a mark of modernity, but I'm not sure what it is. Likewise I don't know about the double "eyelashes" facing each other like that on a SE blade; it is somewhat my impression they tend to occur in "ones" on SE blades, and seem to relate somehow to the edge. Sword appears to be foled steel?
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon ,England
Posts: 80
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HI guys thanks for the replys
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#7 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Merseyside, UK
Posts: 222
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I don't really know much about tulwars, although I have seen them at Militaria fairs. I don't know if it's just the angle at which the photo was taken, but is that blade a bit short?
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon ,England
Posts: 80
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I think its just the angle the blade is 28"
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#9 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 215
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Hi,
Two questions: is the blade sharp, or has it been sharpened at some stage? Is that a hint of a wootz pattern, or is the pic fooling me? I've seen easily over 100 "tourist" market swords from Iran and Rajastan, and NONE of them ever had a sharpened blade, and none of them showed a wootz pattern, but nearly always a definite mechanical damascus pattern. Yours doesn't look like them, at least from your pics. Even the koftgari looks different. It may not be ancient, but looks to be a serviceable fighting sword. -d |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon ,England
Posts: 80
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Hi
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#11 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 176
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#12 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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The markings on the blade of this tulwar are perfectly explained by Rick, and the so called 'sickle' marks are indicative of European trade blades that were often copied by armourers in Afghanistan and Northern India. These are most commonly associated with early Genoan parallel markings that appear to have been adopted by makers in Styria and the Caucusus, among others. It does seem that they occur on most Afghan paluoar blades, at least examples I have seen. The linear multi diamond figure between the toothed semi circles seems atypical of most applications of this marking, but may be embellishment for effect. This marking would have been simply for quality assertion and would not have to do with any armoury markings I have seen.
The three dots or circles have to do with the 'trimurti' and this symbol is key to Hindu as well as Buddhist symbolism, which as Rick has noted, carries rather detailed explanation. The three dot symbol is often seen on tulwar blades, often subtly marked and not usually joined with a 'trade' marking such as the sickle motif seen here. Looks like a nice example, probably latter 19th century, and the hilt seems to suggest Rajasthan as the elements and motif resemble others I've seen that are said to be from there. Best regards, Jim |
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#13 |
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Location: Devon ,England
Posts: 80
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Thanks guys exellent replys,very interesting
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#14 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
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It really looks like a folded blade; from what we've been reading this would be inconsistent with displaying a wootz pattern? A sword in the hand will tell, I suppose. I have seen photographs and film of current Pakistan wherein merchants were selling new swords to natives (as well as guns; supposedly the gunsmiths in Pakistan can and will copy any gun for you, including, sometimes, the marks). These can have been faked/misreported in some way, of course? Not that it's the main weapon, but I think it might be a desired symbol, etc. And on the other hand, I think of recent film I've seen of Tibetan herdsman, wearing swords, presumeably for theft deterence.
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#15 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
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Very true that in regions now part of Pakistan, especially in the Khyber Pass area, the gunsmiths are phenomenal. The one city that comes to mind is Darra, and it seems I have seen this city focused on in some National Geographic article showing walls full of guns in shops and bazaars. These are so faithfully reproduced it is often hard to discern the duplicate from original for the layman. The Pathan tribes have always been amazing at crafting all manner of weaponry, and their 'ancient' jezails are legendary. Throughout the 19th century these constantly refurbished guns often carried venerable EIC locks, and these markings were faithfully reproduced on the locks produced by the gunsmiths well into the 20th century, and probably still are. I recall many years ago having an EIC percussion pistol with the rampant lion marking and being told this was a typical relatively recent Khyber product rather than the c.1840 example presumed.Ouch!!! I certainly couldn't tell the difference! then.
Best regards, Jim |
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#16 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
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Have a look at the attached. Jens Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 25th May 2005 at 02:15 PM. |
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#17 |
Member
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Location: Devon ,England
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I have received it now and it is sharp and the blade is laminated
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