Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 29th September 2006, 01:19 AM   #1
roanoa
Member
 
roanoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
Default ZULU?? SHONA?? HELP!!

Hi guys. Need your help on this one. I collect Ethiopian "stuff", but I could not resist buying this one as I thought it was SOOO neat. The shield is of course Zulu and the spear on the right looks like an assegai to me. I am puzzled by the mace and the other spear. They both have very nice and elaborate braiding of copper and brass wire on their shafts. And the mace is studded all around. What do you make of this? This display was assembled in Scotland quite a few years back. Are these four items of the same ethnic source? Thanks, RON
roanoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 01:26 AM   #2
roanoa
Member
 
roanoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
Default

Here are the pictures.....
Attached Images
    
roanoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 03:36 AM   #3
Emanuel
Member
 
Emanuel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
Default

Wooha! that's a sweet mace
Now I REALLY want to start collecting African clubs. I saw a similar club with studs on ebay once...it was advertized as Zulu. So are these museum or did you get them?
Congrats if you did!
Emanuel
Emanuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 04:36 AM   #4
roanoa
Member
 
roanoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
Default

Yep! Bought this display a few years back.
roanoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 07:17 AM   #5
The Double D
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
Default

Pleas show how the blade is attached to the haft on the right spear. Also show the butts and blades of both.

Can you alson show the back of the shield. What is the height and width of the shield.

That is neat set, I wouldn't care what it is, I would have it in my house.
The Double D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 08:05 AM   #6
roanoa
Member
 
roanoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
Default

Hi. Shield is 54cms x 78cms. Got some pixs before my battery gave up... Here is blade and butt of spear on left. The butt end has a miniature blade (tip is covered by one of the studs) pointy but not sharp. Spear on right has no swelling at the butt and blade tang is wrapped with iron (?) wire. What do you think? Cheers, RON
Attached Images
    
roanoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 09:51 AM   #7
Flavio
Member
 
Flavio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
Thumbs up

Complimenti Roano!!! Very beautiful set!!! I never seen a zulu spear like the one on the left!!! It's also very nice the stand!!!
Flavio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 12:13 PM   #8
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Hi Guys

They look Shona to me and not Zulu. Have never seen a Zulu stabbing spear with a back spike?

Lew
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 06:16 PM   #9
The Double D
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
Default

From A.T. Bryant The Zulu People:
Quote:
Then there was the shield-maker. There were several varieties of shield—war-shields (isiHlangu), hunting-shields (iHubelo), dance-shields (IHawu), and simple dress or promenad-ing-shields (umDlela ; iNgcayi). Several of these might be cut from the one hide ; which, of course, was supplied by the customer. For the large war-shields, the thickest part of the hide, along the back, was selected. After the beast had been slaughtered, and while the hide was still wet from the body, the owner cut out pieces sufficiently large for the shields he wanted, and pegged them out to dry. When thoroughly dry, the pieces were buried beneath the dampened earth inside the cattle-fold, and there left to supple for a day. After exhumation, they were well beaten everywhere on the inner (not hairy) side with a round stone pebble. At this point the professional shield-cutter was engaged, who from the rough pieces of material skilfully cut out the shields as ordered. Thereafter he made the usual double row of horizontal slits (iGdbelo), two inches broad and three-quarters of an inch apart, down the centre of the shield. In a vertical direction, over and under, these slits, he then slipped a couple of suitable strips of hide. This arrangement had the effect of doubling the thickness of the hide along the whole central part, where the shield was held and the stick-blows most frequently received. At the back of the shield, exactly down its centre, between the two rows of slits, a stick ran vertically along the whole length of the shield, being held in position by being passed beneath three or four horizontal, tightly fixed, leathern loops. This stick conferred on the shield perfect rigidity throughout its whole length. A separate leathern loop (isa-Ndla) was placed, running vertically, about the centre of the back, through which (and under the stick alongside) two or three fingers of the left hand were passed, when holding the shield.
Eileen Jensen Krige The Social Social System of the Zulu's Gives these descriptions of shields.

Quote:
isiHlangu.War-shield, four and a half feet by two and a half feet.

iHuBelo. Large-sized shield used for hunting (smaller than
isiHlangu, larger than iHawu).

iHawu. Small shield, used at dances, two feet by one foot.

umBumbuluso. War-shield about three and a half feet long by two feet
wide, made in 1856 for Cetshwayo's followers against his brother MBulaze. More sturdy and less unwieldy than isiHlangu.

Gqoka.Small, neat shield for courting (twelve by eight inches).

Gabelomunye. Smallest shield (nine by nine inches).5


You should be able to see if your shield fits the Zulu pattern from this
The Double D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 08:01 PM   #10
roanoa
Member
 
roanoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
Default

Thanks, Double D. The shield is a little smaller than the umBumbuluso. Though it could be it if there is enough shrinkage. How consistent were the shields in terms of size? I'll post more detailed pictures of the back. I am mostly curious about the mace and the spear on the left. Any imput? Cheers, Ron
roanoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 08:30 PM   #11
The Double D
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
Default

My guess is that these are not precise measurement given feet is used and not just inches. I don't think your shield is a umBumbuluso as I don't think your articles are Zulu. They are similiar, but then all these tribes in this are are somewhat related aren't they?

Now if your all sad and dejected because we said you stuff isn't Zulu, I'll send you my address so you can send the stuff to me for disposal. That should make you feel better, I know it will me.
The Double D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 10:08 PM   #12
roanoa
Member
 
roanoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
Default

Zulu, Shona, Mbedele??? As long as they are NOT Ethiopian, they are all the same to me!! Now, for the disposal of said items: I REALLY appreciate your kind offer to help. We'll have to agree about who pays for shipping.... Cheers, Ron
roanoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2006, 10:21 PM   #13
katana
Member
 
katana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
Default

Hi Roanoa,
nice collection......I too have reservations as to these being Zulu...the spears seem to have Zulu characteristics, the binding for example, but their overall shape and design is 'different' to most Zulu spears I have seen.
The mace is great but I never seen this type attributed to the Zulu either. As you and Lew have pointed out. and DD hinted at...a neighbouring tribe seems likely....so the Shona could well the originators.
There is, I suppose, a possibility of some of these weapons could have been traded or adapted (from 'war trophies') Which, if were 'collected' from the Zulu and would have had thier origins 'elsewhere'.

Irrespective of all that........very ...VERY nice additions to anyone's collection
katana is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.