Howdah Pistol

[Bill M]

I feel like a kid at Christmas! Just won this auction! Here is what the seller said about it!

"A very good, all original (not cut down from a shotgun) 19th Century Howdah. About 70 cal, straight rifled barrels, works good, no major blemishes. It appears the nose cap and trigger guard are silver, quite a bit of the chain design on the damascus remains, screws in good shape. The grip cap is missing."

The rifling is straight. No twist! Anyone know anything about this? Never seen it before. Better pictures when I receive it.

Seller traded a 1954 Bel Aire Chevy for it in 1975. He took it out to his junkyard and fired it with light black powder and lead shot.

His buddy brought it back from Africa in 1965. More info later.

Here is a little flowery description of howdah pistols, I don't see anything copywrited here, The "Howdah" is the name of the basket on the Safari elephant's back in which the buana white hunters pursued their trophies. Occasionally a wounded tiger would attack the elephant jumping into the basket and attempting to kill all inside. A rifle in this situation is next to useless, needed was a rifle powered handgun which could be brought into position to quickly and certainly dispatch the threat.

It is a treasure of the days of the Raj, the dangerous big game safaris to be talked about in club rooms over a slightly warmed brandy...

"I say, have I already mentioned my recent safari? Bagged that rhino on the wall up there. My rifle failed after the first shot, had to finish the blighter with my Howdah. Little windy about another trip, eh, what?"








The business end. Check out the rifling! No tiger is going to survive jumping in my Howdah!!!

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Bill,
Its great to see you here! and what an absolutely gorgeous 'howdah'!!!
Thank you for all the colorful detail as well, I feel like I'm on a safari just in reading your post. I can't help thinking how perfect this pistol fits in your museum, as I recall the howdah pistol carried by Michael Douglas in "The Ghost and the Darkness" and the Tsavo lion you have.

I've heard of these fantastic guns, but never really have seen one. It seems if I understand correctly that some of the earlier examples were made from cut down rifles, but Purdey was producing a large smoothbore double barrel 'howdah' gun (about 16 guage) in the early part of 19th c.

I always think of the tiger hunts in the Raj, with the large carraige type howdahs, with pith helmeted hunters and rifles bristling atop huge elephants.
It seems quite logical to have a powerful pistol with two barrels if you are aboard one of these and suddenly have your prey, the tiger, join you in these cramped quarters! No time for a misfire!

It seems that some British officers carried these with them on campaign occasionally, and cannot resist thinking of Dirty Harry describing his .44 Magnum, 'the most powerful handgun in the world' to the unfortunate criminal he has in his sights, uttering the memorable lines, "...youve got to ask yourself one question, do I feel lucky?"

Thank you so much for the adventure, and sharing this beautiful example here.

All the best,
Jim

[Bill M]

Thank you, Jim for your glowing response!

I really loved the howdah pistol Michael Douglass carried in the "Ghost and the Darkness" also. I can see how this would have been a good lion defense.

I had read that the British military did have some kind of large bore pistol that was used "brutally" in India. Possibly against people who went amok.

I am eager to get this in my hands. I realized that this, being about .70 caliber fired a huge bullet, perhaps some kind of buckshot. The barrels are about the size of a 12 ga shotgun.

With a healthy charge of black powder, it would cause serious damage to a lion. But the recoil would be substantial. Not something you would shoot often with "full-house" loads for fun!

But this is one of the neat things about muzzle loaders. It is easy to load them lighter for practice.

I am quite curious about the "straight rifling." There is no twist. Neither the seller nor I have ever seen anything like this. Any ideas?

[Pukka Bundook]

Hi Bill,

Nice looking pistol!
Will be interesting to see the proof marks when you have it.
The rifling doesn't look worn out!
Straight grooved barrels were at one time made for shot of a specific size, but this one is different, so can not say for sure the reason behind it.
Possibly the idea was to load easier, with less friction, but just guessing.
It looks French or Belgian, (stock shape and trigger-guard) and a nice solid gun!
I have an atricele somewhere on firing these. It's an old Guns & ammo publication.
Seems you don't get the nasty snap you get with a full-house .44 mag, but it does climb, though easy to control with one hand.

We will await a range report!

All the best,

Richard.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Bill and Richard,
I can see how excited you must be to get this piece Bill, I'm right with ya! I keep thinking of your 'museum' there and it really must be a fantastic place for adventures. I recall my den when I would retreat coming home from the chaos of work, heading straight there and my wife would always say, "where are you headed tonight?" and I would say Africa, India, Central Asia or whatever the mood was. It is truly the passion that drives all of us in our collecting and study of these fantastic historical weapons.

Great observations Richard! Its really exciting to see the incredible posts here on firearms, and the interest and expertise on them that has apparantly been latent for so long. I'm glad that this expanded scope has brought this area forward and very much look forward to learning more these and on all these fields of collecting arms and armour.

On the straight rifling, again I emphasize I am a complete novice at firearms, but just a thought. Since these guns were for firing at extremely close range, could it be that rifling would not be needed for trajectory, and would just propel the load straight?
Actually I didn't think that shotguns were rifled as they were firing shot that was controlled by the 'choke' or pattern of the buckshot which depended on the barrel length. Since this is what seems to me essentially a sawed off shotgun, I thought it would be smoothbore.

I've always thought sawed off shotguns were pretty formidable weapons, and most of my interest came from studying the gunfighters of the 'wild west'.The the 'coach guns' carried by the 'shotgun' rider who was sort of the western version of the gunner on WWII bombers come to mind.

Bill, I know what you mean on the black powder firing. I had a most interesting singular experience firing an old black powder musket, and the dynamics were pretty impressive. Even more stunning was that myself, completely alien to guns, actually hit my target!!!

All the best,
Jim

[fernando]

Hi Bill, welcome to this part of the world .
It is only natural that we tend to think that the sense of rifling is that of causing a determined rotation in the bullet, to avoid air resistence and therefore promote projectile direction 'straightness', which is an undeniable fact. Such rifling is grooved in the different barrels with a diverse rotary 'pass', depending on the distinct models and respective patents.
But it seems as there is another version/option called 'straight rifling', which is a rather different thing and serves a somehow opposite purpose, mainly uded in shot guns, i think relative to avoid the wad (and the lead) to freely (randomly?) spin, causing the dispersion of the shot pellets charge, when wanted otherwise.
As rifling is a term intrinsecal to the spinning efect, one (i) thend to think it would be more correct to call this version straight grooving ... but i am wandering .
Just try and draw what is usefull, from all i said ... and with some reserve . Others can put this more technicaly, of course.
Fernando

[Bill M]

I met with an expert on older guns today. I asked him about the "straight rifling." He informed me of something that was so obvious I should have seen it from the start.

It was to prevent or at least postpone fouling. Has nothing to do with trajectory or bullet rotation.

I wonder if rifled guns fouled less than smoothbores? I bet they did.


Richard,

So good to see you on this forum! From your posts on British Militaria, you have a LOT to contribute!

Thanks for your information. Would love to see the article on Howdah pistols.


Fernando,

Good to be here. I may be getting the Jaziel(?) Afghan rifle down down a little oiling.


Jim,

Yeah, I do feel like "tonight I am going to Africa." The Tsavo lion is in our bedroom. Though he is frozen in mid-leap, sometimes I catch a glimpse of him from the corner of my eye and he seems to be watching.

Sometimes Anne and I go around our house holding only one candle. Total darkness otherwise. I suggest doing this. You can see things by candlelight that are not there with room lighting.


I also have my eye on a store near me that sells powder, percussion caps, bullets and supplies. I WILL be working with an expert in old guns before firig it. He has some other people who want to go to the range.

He has suggested that I really do not want full power loads in the howdah pistol, or the Snider because it will hurt!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

... It was to prevent or at least postpone fouling. Has nothing to do with trajectory or bullet rotation ...

Is that (only) so ?

I know my english isn't the best, but i am certain that the writings i spotted when i browsed for straight rifling ( i knew quite well about 'normal' rifling), meant something otherwise; passages like:

The straight rifling keeps the wad from spinning which keeps the pattern consistent from shot to shot.

or:

... The imperfections cause a twisting or turning of the wad as it travels along the barrel and unequal pressure leads to an uneven dispersion of the shot as it leaves the barrel and consequently the mirrored pattern and uneven dispersion on the target.
One way which was proposed to overcome this problem was to provide a new barrel in which straight lands were provided to ensure that the wad travelled down the barrel without twisting. Such a method will prevent the turning of the shot as it leaves the barrel and consequently the mirrored pattern and uneven dispersion on the target.

or even a picture of a gun with one barrel smooth and the other straight rifled, would never make me think that the intention of such system was to prevent barrel fouling.

I guess straight rifling nowadays serves purposes different than those applied in antique weaponry.
Visibly i have been reading the wrong material .

Fernando

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by fernando

Is that (only) so ?

I know my english isn't the best, but i am certain that the writings i spotted when i browsed for straight rifling ( i knew quite well about 'normal' rifling), meant something otherwise; passages like:

The straight rifling keeps the wad from spinning which keeps the pattern consistent from shot to shot.

or:

... The imperfections cause a twisting or turning of the wad as it travels along the barrel and unequal pressure leads to an uneven dispersion of the shot as it leaves the barrel and consequently the mirrored pattern and uneven dispersion on the target.
One way which was proposed to overcome this problem was to provide a new barrel in which straight lands were provided to ensure that the wad travelled down the barrel without twisting. Such a method will prevent the turning of the shot as it leaves the barrel and consequently the mirrored pattern and uneven dispersion on the target.

or even a picture of a gun with one barrel smooth and the other straight rifled, would never make me think that the intention of such system was to prevent barrel fouling.

I guess straight rifling nowadays serves purposes different than those applied in antique weaponry.
Visibly i have been reading the wrong material .

Fernando

Ah, Fernando,

There can be more than one right answer to a question. Yours are as right as any others, maybe they ALL are right!.

I am curious as to why other manufacturers did not make more use of straight rifling?

Also maybe there is a way we can date weapons with this feature. When was it first done?

Keeping multiple projectiles more or less together is also a good idea. Note the "Ball and Buck" loads. One ball and three buckshot.

These guys knew how to hurt!

[Pukka Bundook]

Bill,

I'm not sure if it was the first time around, but straight rifling in shotguns,
(fowling pieces) was popular for a short time in the mid 18th century.
They did indeed throw shot in a very uniform manner, but it had to be of the correct size, that fit exactly in the rifling grooves. (round bottomed grooves.)

The fad did not last very long, as the barrels hed to be somewhat heavier then a normal fowler barrel.

What I said earlier about reduction of friction, is the same as reducing the effect of fouling.
The smaller the area that the ball/patch is in contact with, the less the resistance in loading. That might be the theory, but others will argue that a smooth bright bore is best!

Something has just come to mind; (mind,...what mind?!)

18th century German rifles, made for boar hunting also had straight rifled barrels.
I think in George Shumway's book "Jeager Rifles" he states that the rifling was cut in this manner to facilitate rapid reloading,...the ball could be shoved down the bore faster than through a bore with conventional rifling.
This would be a good idea when boar hunting with a single-shot gun!
Re. accuracy, not much difference out to 70 yds. and your pistol was designed to be fired within a few yards,...at something moving, so the rifling wouldn't make much difference.


All the best,

Richard.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by fernando

Is that (only) so ?

I know my english isn't the best, but i am certain that the writings i spotted when i browsed for straight rifling ( i knew quite well about 'normal' rifling), meant something otherwise; passages like:

The straight rifling keeps the wad from spinning which keeps the pattern consistent from shot to shot.

or:

... The imperfections cause a twisting or turning of the wad as it travels along the barrel and unequal pressure leads to an uneven dispersion of the shot as it leaves the barrel and consequently the mirrored pattern and uneven dispersion on the target.
One way which was proposed to overcome this problem was to provide a new barrel in which straight lands were provided to ensure that the wad travelled down the barrel without twisting. Such a method will prevent the turning of the shot as it leaves the barrel and consequently the mirrored pattern and uneven dispersion on the target.

or even a picture of a gun with one barrel smooth and the other straight rifled, would never make me think that the intention of such system was to prevent barrel fouling.

I guess straight rifling nowadays serves purposes different than those applied in antique weaponry.
Visibly i have been reading the wrong material .

Fernando

Hi Fernando,
Guns with one smooth and one rifled barrel, placed side by side were popularly known as "Capeguns" and are still called this in collectors circles. They saw use in the CAPE, and other parts of Africa where it was never certain what sort of game one would encounter. eg:4 legs or 2 plus wings,---or for that matter just 2 legs! Either way the correct projectile was available.
The Continentals went one better by mating a rifle barrel with 2 smoothbore barrels.
Straight rifling is a new one on me, and if it was used in place of the standard twist type, it could only have made muzzleloading easier. I personally have no idea what the benefits would be for a breechloader.
Regards Stuart

[Bill M]

In researching George Daw mentioned by archer in his post on his howdah pistol, I came across an interesting connection. John Jacobs, who made rifles, both single and doubles that fired a four groove bullet.

http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2...e-proposition/

This bullet was designed to explode on impact.

Though the bullet was made to take out artillery at 1400 yards (max range), an exploding bullet from a howdah pistols would seem a good idea to put the "quietus" on an angry tiger in your howdah! At least it would sound good in "drawing room" conversations!

"Eh, fortunately I was able to pull my Howdah pistol and give the blighter both barrels of exploding Jacobs bullets! Turned him into the rug you see on the floor beside me. Jolly good, what?"

Jacobs rifles were designed as long range guns, used by sharpshooters, I guess a pistol could be made as well.

http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2...-jacobs-rifle/

Note the similarities between the picture of the rifling in the muzzle of Jacob's double and my howdah pistol?

The seller said he never had my pistol apart. I am eager to get it and see what I can find as far as maker's and proof marks.

[Gonzalo G]

Hi Bill, VERY interesting and unusual pistol, I congratulate you for this acquisition! It seems you have been busy making a very good collection of antique firearms. This thread is giving very good information and analysis on the subject of the straight rifled barrels.

Fernando, I don´t think bullet rotation helps in giving less air resistance, as the friction is incremented. Neverthless, it gives a more flat trayectory, more penetration and less dispersion. Not needed by the use assigned to Bill´s gun, I think. I mean, not to shoot at short distance. This kind of rifling poses some interesting questions.
My best regards

Gonzalo

[Jim McDougall]

Bill,
I was just the other evening entranced in TV, and watched one of the documentaries on actual animal behavior footage with some pretty incredible shots, I cant recall now the program. In some of the coverage on lions and tigers, there was one hunt involving three elephants, each carrying a howdah with several people. It was really interesting to actually see these carraiges in perspective, and they seemed pretty cramped.

Next what was completely shocking, was the tiger emerged suddenly out of a thicket and leaped toward one of the howdahs! It was unbelievable to see this huge beast completely airborne, paws and claws outspread and mouth gaping teeth bared! The howdah inhabitants apparantly survived, but at least one was terribly mauled.

In seeing this action in actual film footage, it was terrifying to even watch on film........I can well understand these huge guage guns! I think I would mount a howitzer!!!

Just thought this was interesting,
All the best,
Jim

[Bill M]

Anyone know about the proof marks? Other info? There is something on the Damascus barrels? The locks work fine, but don't hold at half cock. Should they?

Apparently the stock has been glued?

Checking it out with a local guy to determine shooting it with light loads.

[Freddy]

Don't know much about guns, but 'ELG' is the mark of the Liege (in Belgium) proof house.

So, your piece is most likely Belgian (like me )

Freddy

[kronckew]

interesting pattern welded (damascus) barrels, hadn't noted them from the earlier pictures.

unfortunately, damascus barrels usually mean that internal corrosion from the primer material and the powder, and subsequent cleaning involving hot water to remove the powder residue insidiously attacks and weakens the weld lines over it's life, and damascus black powder weapons are best left unfired nowadays as they are more likely to come apart at the seams, leaving you with a hand full (possibly quite literally if it leaves your hand behind) of spirals. one theory being that they are safer as they have less tendency to fragment and kill bystanders. i wouldn't want to be the one firing it in any case.

[archer]

Hi Bill. In Belgian shotgun bores 17.2mm = 15 gauge/ 401 grain ball needed to fill the bore. 18.o mm=s 13 gauge 463 grn ball. When you rotate the hammers back there should be two separate notches half and full cock. The half cock keeps the hammers on safe from firing the percussion caps. What system is used to retain the ramrod? The advice on damascus barrels is correct, I use shot and wads to keep the pressure down; but, I'm a gun nut.
Oh, older gun digests and Dixie gun works catalogues have info in bores gauges etc.

Steve

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by kronckew

interesting pattern welded (damascus) barrels, hadn't noted them from the earlier pictures.

unfortunately, damascus barrels usually mean that internal corrosion from the primer material and the powder, and subsequent cleaning involving hot water to remove the powder residue insidiously attacks and weakens the weld lines over it's life, and damascus black powder weapons are best left unfired nowadays as they are more likely to come apart at the seams, leaving you with a hand full (possibly quite literally if it leaves your hand behind) of spirals. one theory being that they are safer as they have less tendency to fragment and kill bystanders. i wouldn't want to be the one firing it in any case.

Kronckew,

Thanks for the advice. What you say makes sense. I think the days of "anti-tiger" loads are for in the pistol's past. Maybe enough to go "BOOM" with just wads. I have a local guy who knows a lot about these old guns. I'll let him shoot it first.

Originally Posted by archer

Hi Bill. In Belgian shotgun bores 17.2mm = 15 gauge/ 401 grain ball needed to fill the bore. 18.o mm=s 13 gauge 463 grn ball. When you rotate the hammers back there should be two separate notches half and full cock. The half cock keeps the hammers on safe from firing the percussion caps. What system is used to retain the ramrod? The advice on damascus barrels is correct, I use shot and wads to keep the pressure down; but, I'm a gun nut.
Oh, older gun digests and Dixie gun works catalogues have info in bores gauges etc.

Steve

Hi Steve,

The half-cock is not safe. When you pull the trigger, the gun fires. Half or full cock. I may take the lock apart and see why this happens.

My friend here says he will "mike the bore" and tell me what size it is. I AM a little nervous about firing a projectile.

He said that he thought it was Belgian from looking at it. Could not see the proof marks, covered by the stock, so I guess it must be Belgian.

I am familiar with Dixie Gun works. There is a store here in Atlanta called Dixie, but I don't know if it is the same company. I bought some cannon grade black powder and fuse from them.

I have some bronze Borneo swivel guns that date back to the 1500s - -- 1600s. I don't use projectiles in them either.

Thank you for your responses, everyone.

[Bill M]

An old post about my Howdah pistol.

"The howdah pistols were carried as defensive weapons whether out hunting or not and their primary use was against tigers or other big cats. These pistols can be single, double or quadruple barrel and in large calibers such as .577, .50, or 20 gauge for a smoothbore. Most were black powder arms.

If a tiger decided to attack they would often go for the mahout, the person riding just behind the elephant’s head who controls the elephant. One hunter said of the use of the howdah pistol “to be effective, the muzzle must be placed close to the tiger’s head, and care must be taken not to kill the mahout.” The howdah pistol was the weapon of last resort used in close encounters of the tiger kind at muzzle to muzzle point blank range."

[corrado26]

and here a Howdah pistol of my collection. This one has a flintlock and was made by Bond in London. Its smooth bore barrel has a calibre of 17,5mm.
corrado26