Arabic daggers for ID

mariusgmioc · 26th September 2021, 05:20 PM

Any comments are welcome!

Battara · 26th September 2021, 09:12 PM

I want to guess by the filigree and (especially the 2nd one) by the scabbard shape that these are from Yemen.

Very nice.

Saracen · 27th September 2021, 12:07 AM

Two beautiful thouma jambiyas. Jambiya in the first photo due to the rough work and reddish hue (high copper content) it seems rather late to me.
In this case, this jambiya is most likely from Jeddah (Saudi Arabia).
The second one is of much higher quality and, I think, from the Hadhramaut region (according to the style of the handle design). Both are very dirty, if they are cleaned, they will make a much better impression, and the first one will completely lose the reddish tinge of copper and nothing will give away its low social origin

mahratt · 27th September 2021, 11:48 AM

Marius, does it seem to me, or is there really some kind of inscription on handle of one of jambiyas?

mariusgmioc · 27th September 2021, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Marius, does it seem to me, or is there really some kind of inscription on handle of one of jambiyas?

Yes, there is some inscription. I am hoping that maybe Kwiatek will be able to translate it.

ariel · 27th September 2021, 08:12 PM

All I can say about them:
1. Both are Yemeni Janbiyas
2. Both have real blades, not modern Chinese fakes with stamped seml- blades welded to each other at the periphery and hollow inside. Proof: the ridges are rectangular, not semicircular.
3. Both are at least 60-80 years old. Inscription might help. Kwiatek is excellent.
4. Gentle cleaning is IMHO desirable.
5. They may (!) be coming from the workshops of Jewish jewelers, who by and large left Yemen in 1949-1950. Some were retained behind until they teach their government-assigned Arab youngsters secrets of their profession. Understandably, nothing came out of it because most of the youngsters had other plans. But that delayed the decline of the quality of decoration.

“Th- th- that’s all , folks!” ( c. Duffy Duck, PhD)

Saracen · 28th September 2021, 01:04 AM

Ariel is absolutely right as always). Both are Yemeni Jambiyas. Just the first one is a little Saudi).
Stephen Gracie writes that the type of this handle comes from Yemen, from the Hodeidah region. Since 1960, as a result of unification conflicts, the production of these Jambiyas has moved to Jeddah. And completely ceased in Hodeidah by 1980.
Robert Elgood defines this type as "...from the Asir or Tihama", that is, from the southwestern region of Saudi Arabia or the region along the Red Sea coast located in Yemen and Saudi Arabia. Both cities are located on this coastal plain.
Due to the use of false filigree and an alloy with a high copper content, I think that the Jewish jewelers had already left when this jambiya was born).
I don't read Arabic, but I remember the spelling of some words (when I'm lucky enough to recognize them). The upper right word in the inscription is amal (worked, made by). At the bottom (I can be very wrong) I think Jeddah. It's too short the word to be anything else).

mariusgmioc · 28th September 2021, 08:31 AM

Wow!

Thank you very much for your information!

Very much appreciated!

Richard G · 28th September 2021, 12:19 PM

I think o can get as far as 'amal Mohammed'
Regards
Richard

26th September 2021, 05:20 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Arabic daggers for ID Any comments are welcome! Attached Images

27th September 2021, 08:12 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	All I can say about them: 1. Both are Yemeni Janbiyas 2. Both have real blades, not modern Chinese fakes with stamped seml- blades welded to each other at the periphery and hollow inside. Proof: the ridges are rectangular, not semicircular. 3. Both are at least 60-80 years old. Inscription might help. Kwiatek is excellent. 4. Gentle cleaning is IMHO desirable. 5. They may (!) be coming from the workshops of Jewish jewelers, who by and large left Yemen in 1949-1950. Some were retained behind until they teach their government-assigned Arab youngsters secrets of their profession. Understandably, nothing came out of it because most of the youngsters had other plans. But that delayed the decline of the quality of decoration. “Th- th- that’s all , folks!” ( c. Duffy Duck, PhD) Last edited by ariel; 27th September 2021 at 08:36 PM.

28th September 2021, 08:31 AM	#8
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Wow! Thank you very much for your information! Very much appreciated! Last edited by mariusgmioc; 28th September 2021 at 08:43 AM.

26th September 2021, 09:12 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I want to guess by the filigree and (especially the 2nd one) by the scabbard shape that these are from Yemen. Very nice.

27th September 2021, 12:07 AM	#3
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Two beautiful thouma jambiyas. Jambiya in the first photo due to the rough work and reddish hue (high copper content) it seems rather late to me. In this case, this jambiya is most likely from Jeddah (Saudi Arabia). The second one is of much higher quality and, I think, from the Hadhramaut region (according to the style of the handle design). Both are very dirty, if they are cleaned, they will make a much better impression, and the first one will completely lose the reddish tinge of copper and nothing will give away its low social origin

27th September 2021, 11:48 AM	#4
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Marius, does it seem to me, or is there really some kind of inscription on handle of one of jambiyas?

28th September 2021, 01:04 AM	#7
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Ariel is absolutely right as always). Both are Yemeni Jambiyas. Just the first one is a little Saudi). Stephen Gracie writes that the type of this handle comes from Yemen, from the Hodeidah region. Since 1960, as a result of unification conflicts, the production of these Jambiyas has moved to Jeddah. And completely ceased in Hodeidah by 1980. Robert Elgood defines this type as "...from the Asir or Tihama", that is, from the southwestern region of Saudi Arabia or the region along the Red Sea coast located in Yemen and Saudi Arabia. Both cities are located on this coastal plain. Due to the use of false filigree and an alloy with a high copper content, I think that the Jewish jewelers had already left when this jambiya was born). I don't read Arabic, but I remember the spelling of some words (when I'm lucky enough to recognize them). The upper right word in the inscription is amal (worked, made by). At the bottom (I can be very wrong) I think Jeddah. It's too short the word to be anything else).

28th September 2021, 12:19 PM	#9
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	I think o can get as far as 'amal Mohammed' Regards Richard