Valient Kujang Macan

[jmings]

I just bought a Kujang Macan from Valient America (Bill Wray ) and can't find any information on the net about it.
linkski

It's the upper weapon shown below.




Can anyone tell me anything about the knife, its history and usage.
It does look like it would go hand-in-hand with the "Heartless Monkey" style of silat, but I really don't know.

Thanks in advance.

[Rick]

Hi Jerry ,
A little info ;
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kudi
post #15

Also
http://old.blades.free.fr/
look under spears .

[jmings]

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Jerry ,
A little info ;
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kudi
post #15

Also
http://old.blades.free.fr/
look under spears .

Super, Rick. You are faster than a speeding bullet and sharp as a tach (pardon pun please). Thank you. Much to absorb!

[Rick]

De nada Amigo,
I think there's a few more tidbits in forum search using kujang as keyword .

Seems there were a few forms of this esoteric item ; possibly Alan may add some comments when his side of the world wakes up .

Rick

[Pangeran Datu]

Hello,
Just my two-bobs' worth:
The Kujang was a practical utensil, a symbol of one's status/authority and a weapon.
The Kujang is synonymous with the Sunda people of West Java (Parahyangan). It has also become synonymous with the kingdom of Pajajaran ( the unification of the Sunda and Galuh kingdoms, 1482). The Sunda were known as 'the mountain people' whose avatar was the tiger, while Galuh people were known as 'the water people', with the crocodile as their avatar.
The Kujang was actively developed post 1357, when the Sunda ruler severed all ties (including familial) with Majapait, after the incident known as 'The Bubat Massacre'.
The Kujang has it's own 'pakem'/protocol.
I believe that the Kujang was restricted to the ruling class, theologians and certain classes of women. The common folk used other weapons such as, bedog, congkrang etc. Were they to have used Kujangs, they would have been in the simple 'scythe/sickle' form for farming purposes.
The Kujang has the following types, based on the shape of the 'waruga'/body:
- 'arit'/scythe/sickle
- 'ciung'/starling
- 'jago'/cockerel
- 'kuntul'/egret
- 'bangkong'/frog
- 'naga'/serpent
- 'badak'/rhinoceros
All the above also have the necessary/appropriate blade decorations/details.

The ownership of a particular type of Kujang is determined by the duties and functions of the owner.

As for the Kujang Macan:
I believe that it is a recent construct, by people not too steeped in tradition. If such a Kujang had existed in the past, it would more likely have been called Kujang Maung. Even then, the Empus would have risked the wrath of 'Maung Kajajaden'.... hardly likely....

I apologise for any drivel.
Hope it helps.. and encourages other people to expand, clarify, refute....

Cheers.

[sigit subagio]

Pak Pangeran this explain is very interist

Please can Pak Pangeran tell from where this explain for kujang

Terima kasih banyak.

[Pangeran Datu]

Originally Posted by sigit subagio

Pak Pangeran this explain is very interist

Please can Pak Pangeran tell from where this explain for kujang

Terima kasih banyak.

Hello Sigit,

I can't remember exactly, but you could start with:

- Pantun Bogor
- Wawacan Terah Pasundan
- Museum Sri Baduga, Bdg, JaBar
- Yayasan Pangeran Sumedang, Smd, JaBar
- Paguyuban Pasundan (or whatever they are called now), Bdg, JaBar

As with a lot of things, there may be differing views, so you will have to satisfy yourself as to what is the best for you.

Regards.

[A. G. Maisey]

Pangeran Datu

I have noted your response to Sigit Subagio, and I thank you most sincerely for sharing this information with us, however, regretably , for me, the list of names you have provided raises more questions than it answers.

I would beg your indulgence in this matter, as the information that you provided in your intial post is information that I believe all of us with an interest in Indonesian weaponry would find most interesting. My own experience is in Central Jawa, and I have very little knowledge of Sundanese culture or institutions. I am sure, that those readers who have no understanding at all of the Indonesian language would be even more mystified than I am by the list of names you have provided.

Accordingly, I would be greatly obliged if could expand your explanation just a little by the provision some notes on your sources. For instance, I only know of the word "pantun" as a poetry form. Is Pantun Bogor, a particular piece of poetry? Composer known? Traditional? Dates from?How does it contribute to your data?

Wawacan terah Pasundan I do not understand. "wawacan" I do not understand, Pasundan I understand, "Terah" I have no idea of the meaning of.

Musium sri Baduga in Bandung--understood, but in what sense is this your source? Are you quoting from a musium publication, or a display tag? Do we know the author?

Yayasan Pangeran Sumedang, alright, the Pangeran Sumedang Foundation, but what is this foundation, what does it do, and how is the source for your information?

Paguyuban Pasundan, The Sundanese Association, ( or, as you say, whatever they may call themselves now), again, what is this association, what does it do, and how is it the source for your information?

As I said earlier:- your information is very interesting for many of us, if you could expand, your additional contribution would be of inestimable value.

I apologise to putting these questions to you, but I am sure that you understand just how important it is to adequately record any information of this kind.

I thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Alan.

[Pangeran Datu]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pangeran Datu

I have noted your response to Sigit Subagio, and I thank you most sincerely for sharing this information with us, however, regretably , for me, the list of names you have provided raises more questions than it answers.

I would beg your indulgence in this matter, as the information that you provided in your intial post is information that I believe all of us with an interest in Indonesian weaponry would find most interesting. My own experience is in Central Jawa, and I have very little knowledge of Sundanese culture or institutions. I am sure, that those readers who have no understanding at all of the Indonesian language would be even more mystified than I am by the list of names you have provided.

Accordingly, I would be greatly obliged if could expand your explanation just a little by the provision some notes on your sources. For instance, I only know of the word "pantun" as a poetry form. Is Pantun Bogor, a particular piece of poetry? Composer known? Traditional? Dates from?How does it contribute to your data?

Wawacan terah Pasundan I do not understand. "wawacan" I do not understand, Pasundan I understand, "Terah" I have no idea of the meaning of.

Musium sri Baduga in Bandung--understood, but in what sense is this your source? Are you quoting from a musium publication, or a display tag? Do we know the author?

Yayasan Pangeran Sumedang, alright, the Pangeran Sumedang Foundation, but what is this foundation, what does it do, and how is the source for your information?

Paguyuban Pasundan, The Sundanese Association, ( or, as you say, whatever they may call themselves now), again, what is this association, what does it do, and how is it the source for your information?

As I said earlier:- your information is very interesting for many of us, if you could expand, your additional contribution would be of inestimable value.

I apologise to putting these questions to you, but I am sure that you understand just how important it is to adequately record any information of this kind.

I thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

Alan.

Hello Alan,

As you noted, my response to Sigit Subagio was primarily intended for him. I assumed that he lived in Jember and therefore would be in a position to follow up on what I provided.
I listed what I would consider sources more readily available in the public arena. Unfortunately, I cannot provide specific details about sources. Sources may vary from books in libraries to 'paririmbon' (family histories); from officials to private individuals. Some people wanted to maintain their anonymity while others wanted to keep their paririmbon private.
In any event, it is of little concern to me.
Being eclectic, anything I encounter I analyse to my satisfaction before I commit to memory. I document very little, otherwise my life would not be as rich. I leave that to academia and those better versed in scientific methodologies. However, all my knowledge is under a continuing and iterative process of evaluation, in the light of more recent data.

To answer your questions:

- 'Pantun' is a traditional (pre-16thC.) Sunda activity performed either as a ritual or as entertainment. It is chanted in verse form by a bard to the accompaniment of a 'pantun' (a plucked, stringed instrument similar to that used in 'gamelan')
Each pantun is a lengthy, descriptive story.
In ritual pantun, due to the sacredness of the occasion, the stories tend to be more religious in nature, while in entertainment pantun, the stories tend to be about some pre-Islamic prince/ruler or local lore/yore.
Entertainment pantun performances usually begin in the early evening and end at dawn. Ritual pantuns, on the other hand, usually start early before dawn and take a lot longer.
Pantuns were passed down in the oral tradition.
'Pantun Bogor', is a collection of such stories which were actually transcribed before WW II.

- 'Wawacan' is a story which fulfils a set ctriteria. It was not meant to be read in a personal way, like a paperback; rather, it was delivered to a selected audience. Its target audience were usually two groups within the community: 'pesantren' (religious scholars) and 'menak' (aristocracy). That is why wawacans were written in two scripts: 'pegon' (pesantren) and cacarakan (menak).
Wawacan Terah Pasundan is a publication dealing with Sunda heritage.

- Museum Sri Baduga probably is the best museum source on Sunda. It also has a collection of traditional weapons.

- Yayasan Pangeran Sumedang is a foundation dedicated to preserving the heritage of Sumedang, one of the oldest kingdoms. It also has a collection of kujang.

- Paguyuban Pasundan seeks to preserve/ develop Sunda language, history and culture. A good source for contacts.

Cheers,

[jmings]

Originally Posted by Pangeran Datu

<snip>
As for the Kujang Macan:
I believe that it is a recent construct, by people not too steeped in tradition. If such a Kujang had existed in the past, it would more likely have been called Kujang Maung. Even then, the Empus would have risked the wrath of 'Maung Kajajaden'.... hardly likely....

I apologise for any drivel.
Hope it helps.. and encourages other people to expand, clarify, refute....

Cheers.

Drivel? Hardly! This is facinating material.

Thanks to all who responded. You have cracked open a window of culture and history that I was previously unaware of.

Scholar Pangeran Datu, I find your statement about empus risking wrath of 'Maung Kajajaden' of great interest. I can find neither any english web pages, nor free on-line translators. Might you (or anyone) expand on this subject a bit.

[jmings]

It's here and even more beautiful than the pic.

SWMBO: Oh, it's beautifull.
ME: Isn't it! They were for women.
LINDA: <reaching> Realy!
ME: <stuffing in belt> And high ranking officials.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you most sincerely for your detailed reply, Pangeran.

You have saved me hours of time playing with google. It must be wonderful to have such a retentive memory, I have difficulty in remembering the date of my own birthday. I find that I need to make notes of everything, if I am to have even the slightest chance of accessing that information at some time in the future. To be able to call upon one's memory for such detail is truly wonderful. I'm impressed.

There is only one thing you have said that still remains a puzzle to me.

You mentioned that Sigit lives in Jember, and thus would be able to easily follow up on the leads that you supplied. I didn`t realise that Sigit had said he lived in Jember, but if he does, Jember is about 120 miles south-east of Surabaya, in East Jawa, and probably something like 300 or more miles from Bandung and Bogor in West Jawa.
To go from Jember to Bandung would involve a lot of money, and a lot of time for him, so I am certain that Sigit is just as grateful for your further information as am I.

Alan.