Undefined matchlock barrel

Marcus den toom · 23rd August 2014, 09:40 PM

This barrel belongs to an older gentleman and friend of mine in the Netherlands. The barrel measures an impressive 164cm and is about 46mm thick in the back and 30 mm in diameter in the front with an 21mm bore. The whole barrel is round and has stricking similarities with Indian and eastern barrels. Somehow i doubt that it is one of those seeing as it is way to heavy. It also had, in its past, a pancover and the rear sight is also unussual for an Indian barrel. I asked the owner if there where any marks that could tell if there was ever a hook attached and with some imagination (as he called it) you could see squared faced places underneath the barrel at one place. At the breech there is a attachement loop underneath the barrel.
It is out of my power to correctly date this piece but i would say at least 16th century.

fernando · 23rd August 2014, 10:28 PM

I don't discern any differences between this example and Indian Toradar barrels in general

.
The problem with these is that they look like the same, either being early ones or from the 19th century. You have to know a lot about them to tell the difference.

Matchlock · 25th August 2014, 05:58 PM

Exactly, Nando,

And thank you so much for identiying that item!

It IS a barrel from an Indian Toradar, most probably coming from the arsenal of Rajpoot:
https://www.google.de/search?q=toradar&client=firefox-a&hs=S2d&rls=org.mozilla:defficial&channel=sb&so urce=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=yGD7U7-BLqSm0QWtr4H4AQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1280&bih=666

For such a 19th c. Indian barrel used in an otherwise completely faked German haquebut alleged to be "ca. 1500", please see my thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=fake+wall

The bottom attachments illustrate an item from the collections of the Victoria&Albert Museum (V&A), London.

Best as ever,
Michl

Matchlock · 28th August 2014, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Exactly, Nando,

And thank you so much for identiying that item!

It IS a barrel from an Indian Toradar, most probably coming from the arsenal of Rajpoot:
https://www.google.de/search?q=toradar&client=firefox-a&hs=S2d&rls=org.mozilla:defficial&channel=sb&so urce=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=yGD7U7-BLqSm0QWtr4H4AQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1280&bih=666

For such a 19th c. Indian barrel used in an otherwise completely faked German haquebut alleged to be "ca. 1500", please see my thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=fake+wall

The bottom attachments illustrate an item from the collections of the Victoria&Albert Museum (V&A), London.

Best as ever,
Michl

Sorry for mistyping; the correct term, of course, is Torador.

Please also note Czerjak's thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=torador

m

fernando · 28th August 2014, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... Sorry for mistyping; the correct term, of course, is Torador

Are you sure Michl ?
I had this fantasy that the spelling Torador is a corruption influenced by the term Toureador (bullfighter)

.
Tirri spells Toradar, as also Stone and some museums out there, including the Australian Victoria and even the Met

23rd August 2014, 09:40 PM	#1
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Undefined matchlock barrel This barrel belongs to an older gentleman and friend of mine in the Netherlands. The barrel measures an impressive 164cm and is about 46mm thick in the back and 30 mm in diameter in the front with an 21mm bore. The whole barrel is round and has stricking similarities with Indian and eastern barrels. Somehow i doubt that it is one of those seeing as it is way to heavy. It also had, in its past, a pancover and the rear sight is also unussual for an Indian barrel. I asked the owner if there where any marks that could tell if there was ever a hook attached and with some imagination (as he called it) you could see squared faced places underneath the barrel at one place. At the breech there is a attachement loop underneath the barrel. It is out of my power to correctly date this piece but i would say at least 16th century.

25th August 2014, 05:58 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Nando, And thank you so much for identiying that item! It IS a barrel from an Indian Toradar, most probably coming from the arsenal of Rajpoot: https://www.google.de/search?q=toradar&client=firefox-a&hs=S2d&rls=org.mozilla:defficial&channel=sb&so urce=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=yGD7U7-BLqSm0QWtr4H4AQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1280&bih=666 For such a 19th c. Indian barrel used in an otherwise completely faked German haquebut alleged to be "ca. 1500", please see my thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=fake+wall The bottom attachments illustrate an item from the collections of the Victoria&Albert Museum (V&A), London. Best as ever, Michl Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th August 2014 at 06:22 PM.

23rd August 2014, 10:28 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I don't discern any differences between this example and Indian Toradar barrels in general . The problem with these is that they look like the same, either being early ones or from the 19th century. You have to know a lot about them to tell the difference.