Blades from Sarawak, Malaysia

Dinggat · 7th May 2009, 01:00 PM

Hi,
I wanted to show my collection, and ask if anyone knows if these are all parangs of the Iban tribe of Sarawak or if they are from other tribes (or if it is even possible to say that).

The first four: My parents brought them from Malaysia some 30 or more years ago (my Mom is from Sarawak, my Dad is from Germany but worked there, and they brought a lot of stuff with them when they moved to Germany):

Another two, my mom brought them from Sarawak in 2007, so I don't know if they are old or new.

Hope they are not tourist art.

And I also got one blowpipe and two spears:

-----------------------------------------------------

And finally, I also have a Piso Podang of the Batak tribe of Sumatra. This weapon had made it's way to Borneo into the possession of my mom's family. I don't know the age. My mom then brought it to Germany. Such Piso Podang are not common, but can sometimes be found in the old heirlooms of Iban families (who didn't already sell it). The Japanese style sword below is just worthless souvenir stuff from Spain, don't look at it

David · 7th May 2009, 04:29 PM

Can't tell much about these without seeing the blades and lots of close-up photos. Just on the surface they look like the kind of stuff made for the higher end tourist trade.

Dinggat · 7th May 2009, 07:10 PM

All items except for the two parangs in pic #2 are well over 30 years old (I mean: They are in Germany since more than 30 years. How long they have existed before is beyond my knowledge). Did a "tourist art" industry already exist back then?

VANDOO · 7th May 2009, 11:33 PM

THE HEADHUNTING DAYS WERE OVER LONG AGO BUT THE TOURIST HUNTING DAYS WERE IN FULL SWING 30 YEARS AGO AND TOURISTS ARE STILL IN SEASON.

IN YOUR FIRST PICTURE THE SMALLEST OF THE FOUR MANDAU APPEARS TO BE ONE MADE FOR ACTUAL VILLAGE USE AND MAY BE THE OLDEST. THE OTHERS WERE MADE EITHER FOR TOURISTS POSSIBLY FOR USE IN SHOWS FOR TOURISTS. THEY MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN USED IN CEREMONIES OR FOR PRESENTATION TO IMPORTANT VISITORS. THE OTHER TWO MANDAUS FALL INTO THIS CATAGORY. SOMETIMES A MANDAU LIKE THIS DOES HAVE A GOOD OLD BLADE BUT MOST OF THE TIME IT IS A NEW ONE AND THEY SOMETIMES EAT THE BLADES UP WITH ACID TO MAKE IT LOOK OLD.
THE TWO SPEARS LOOK TOURIST DEFINITELY NOT TRADITIONAL DAYAK FORMS. THE SUMPIT (BLOWGUN) LOOKS GOOD BUT IF IT IS OLD OR NEW I CANT SAY. THE PISO PODANG IS FAIRLY COMMON IN BORNEO MOSTLY IN KUCHING I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY ARE THERE BUT IT WOULD SEEM A LOT OF THEM ARRIVED AS TRADE GOODS SOME TIME IN THE PAST. A NICE DISPLAY NOT OFTEN SEEN WHERE YOU NOW LIVE

asomotif · 7th May 2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Did a "tourist art" industry already exist back then?

In batak (sumatra) area tourist trade existed before 1900
On Nias tourist trade started maybe somewhere in 1930's

As for these mandau's, parangs etc, pictures of the blades would be helpfull.
The handle and scabbard may be newer than the blade.

But to give my humble first opinion :

1st picture : left one looks like complete tourist to me. the others might well be contemporary examples.

2nd picture : both tourist IMHO

3rd picture : sumpitan looks tourist to me, spears, not even Borneo i think.

4th picture : podang : yep, that is the real thing.

more pics of that one please...

Dinggat · 8th May 2009, 01:15 AM

So, except for the Piso Podang (and possibly the smallest one in pic #1) all of them are tourist art? That's kinda disappointing. But well, what could I expect.

I can confirm that the small parang is most probably a working tool. It has a pretty thick blade with no decorations at all. The other one's have more or less decorated blades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

4th picture : podang : yep, that is the real thing.

more pics of that one please...

I can provide you with more pics in a couple of weeks, I'm not at home right now. I'll open a new thread for it when the time has come

But I can show you two pics of another Piso Podang that hangs in my grandma's longhouse in Sarawak. I took two snapshots of it when I visited last time.

Is there any good literature on Iban "cutlery" out there? As a half-Iban who didn't grow up there I'm interested in all things Iban, but whereas ethnologic stuff about agriculture, history etc. can be found quite abundant, specialized literature on their swords has not shown up to me so far.

greetings and thanks

Amuk Murugul · 8th May 2009, 01:21 AM

Hullo everybody!

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE HEADHUNTING DAYS WERE OVER LONG AGO........

.... unfortunately not TOTALLY... ask the people of Kalimantan... all that's needed is ... the RIGHT EXCUSE...

Best,

David · 8th May 2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo everybody!

.... unfortunately not TOTALLY... ask the people of Kalimantan... all that's needed is ... the RIGHT EXCUSE...

Best,

I've heard stories of heads being taken as late as the early 70s.
I look forward to seeing the blades on some of these Dinggat. Until then we are only really guessing.

Amuk Murugul · 8th May 2009, 02:37 AM

Hullo again,

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I've heard stories of heads being taken as late as the early 70s.
.........

..Actually... as recent as 2001... when there was inter-ethnic trouble ... at the time, it wasn't that rare to see a Dajak walking in the street with a weapon in one hand and a head dangling in the other. Apparently many Dajaks still retain their keen senses, especially the sense of smell. Enough of this gore....
I really came back to take advantage of this thread and post pix for ID of some ex-Kalimantan pieces in my collection (not really my area). Just a general ID is OK.

Best,

Maurice · 8th May 2009, 08:13 AM

According to the book of Evans about North Borneo tribes, the "podang" he is calling a "pedang" was used also in North Borneo (Sabah). There is also a pic of a man carrying a "podang" with him.
Also the Ibans, as already known, liked this sword to be handled.

Evans is saying that "probably" these blades were made in Brunei. This State lies between Sarawak and Sabah, so in my opinion this could be true. Does anyone has read other information written about it?

Dinggat, you should buy yourself the book "iban art" from Heppell. It is a very nice book with nice pictures (You can also see this "podang" in it.)

PS. the dayakswords your grandmother has in her house looks like the real thing. You can see already there the difference in used ones (grandmother), and not used ones (not included your "podang" as Willem already said).

Regards,
Maurice

Dinggat · 8th May 2009, 09:09 AM

I can at least confirm that the Iban sometimes prefer to use a Piso Podang (PP) for their traditional dances and performances instead of a real Iban weapon. Possibly an antique PP is a more prestigious thing to own for the individual Iban than a mere "normal" parang that everyone has.

But one more thing I'm curious about: Unfortunately the blade of my PP is pretty rusted, but still I seem to remember that a smith's signature on the blade was visible. The funny thing is: The signature was made from European/Latin letters. What meaning could this have in regards to the "realness" of the weapon?

Amuk Murugul · 8th May 2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinggat

I can at least confirm that the Iban sometimes prefer to use a Piso Podang (PP) for their traditional dances and performances instead of a real Iban weapon. Possibly an antique PP is a more prestigious thing to own for the individual Iban than a mere "normal" parang that everyone has.

But one more thing I'm curious about: Unfortunately the blade of my PP is pretty rusted, but still I seem to remember that a smith's signature on the blade was visible. The funny thing is: The signature was made from European/Latin letters. What meaning could this have in regards to the "realness" of the weapon?

Hullo Dingdat,

I wouldn't worry about the 'realness' of the implement (of course this depends on how strict/purist you are). It's quite common to use non-local blades (be it from other regions or other countries) with local hilts/dress . As a matter of fact, in the 17th-18th centuries, VOC trade blades (manufactured by its foundaries in India and elsewhere in the East Indies) were commonly used throughout the Archipelago.

As for whether it's a 'pedang' or 'podang' (or even 'peudeueng'). I wouldn't worry about it too much. This is just a variation in the local language, similar to 'sword', 'zwaard' and 'schwert'. Basically the same.
In Brunei, the Malay spoken has always been the closest to Bahasa Indonesia, in essence, the Archipelago trade lingua franca. In Sabah, there is a strong Batak influence, particularly among some tribes, such as the Tawau (where they speak Malay with a Batak flavour).

Hope this helps.

Best,

Dinggat · 8th May 2009, 11:42 AM

Oh, I'm not purist in any kind of way. I just want to find out as much as possible about this particular weapon. It's not like I would throw it away if I found out it was not "the real thing".

As an amatuer linguist who learns a few Austronesian languages I'm very aware of the local differences (Podang, Pedang etc.). Apart from actual dialectic differences such different spellings can often be traced back to the Europeans who where the first one's to put a native language to paper. What sounded like "Pedang" to a British colonialist might have sounded like a "Podang" to his Dutch colleague, even though they basically heard the same word.

Amuk Murugul · 8th May 2009, 09:06 PM

Hullo Dinggat,

I just found some old notes on Kalimantan. Apparently, at some stage, I found that the Batak type sword was common in northern and western Kalimantan. I'll get back to you when I find some more info (or perhaps you'll already have it before then).

Best,

Maurice · 8th May 2009, 09:59 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=batak

Amuk Murugul · 8th May 2009, 10:58 PM

Hullo everybody,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=batak

Thanks for the link Maurice mvg

Dinggat,

To iterate, the Indian/Batak style sword was quite common among the native population of the northern and western parts of the island.
This was the area where the Iban were the predominant people, having expanded to West Kalimantan and Sabah from their ancestral homeland in the Batang Lupar River area (particularly in the last half of the 19th century). So it comes as no surprise that your family owns one.

Best,

Dinggat · 9th May 2009, 12:44 AM

Thank you all very much. So trade distributed the Piso Podangs to Borneo into the hands of the Iban (and I suppose other ethnic groups as well). I hope I wont forget to take the photos next time I'm home.

asomotif · 9th May 2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

you should buy yourself the book "iban art" from Heppell

Here is the front cover of this book with a nice podang in a faily recent picture.

VVV · 9th May 2009, 10:22 AM

Nice sword collection A.M.

Next to your (probably not Borneo made but in this case) Batak Podang is a rare Malay sword called Chenangkas.
And next to it a Parang Negara from the South.
Could you please upload some more pictures of the Chenangkas?

If there is a face on the nice Kutei/Modang mandau far right maybe you could upload it on the face thread?

Michael

Dinggat · 9th May 2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Here is the front cover of this book with a nice podang in a faily recent picture.

Is it the normal mode of decoration to put the hairy tufts into the hollow pommel? All other Piso Podang I've seen so far had no such stuff in that pommel.

I'll try to get my hands on a copy of that book.

VVV · 10th May 2009, 10:19 PM

Dinggat,

On the Borneo Pedang you see hair tufts quite often.
On the resembling Sumatran/Batak Piso Podang or the Malay Peninsular Pedang Shamshir it's not usual.
Please note that most Pedang found in Borneo probably were made locally, like in the sword factories in Brunei as described in Evans.
I doubt the old ones were imported from the Bataks.
If imported I find it more probable they came from Malaysia or India, according to Gardner.

Michael

Dinggat · 10th May 2009, 11:44 PM

Thanks for all those enlightening informations

Is it known why exactly did the Batak choose to create hollow pommels if they did not put anything in there? Within that hollow space there's a small "sting" at my PP, I guess that's always the case.

I hope all my questions are not too annoying. In the end I'm just playing parasite on all the knowledge that you probably gained by years-long research.

VANDOO · 11th May 2009, 02:37 AM

THIS MAY BE JUST A STORY OR THE TRUTH SO UNTIL IT CAN BE PROVEN I TELL IT JUST AS A STORY.

I WAS TOLD THE HOLLOW POMMEL REPRESENTS THE CUP MOHAMMED DRANK FROM EITHER BEFORE OR AFTER A BIG BATTLE. PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN FIND OUT IF THERE IS ANY FACTUAL BASE FOR THE STORY.

Dinggat · 11th May 2009, 10:29 PM

True or not, at least it is an interesting theory.

Amuk Murugul · 20th May 2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Nice sword collection A.M.

Next to your (probably not Borneo made but in this case) Batak Podang is a rare Malay sword called Chenangkas.
And next to it a Parang Negara from the South.
Could you please upload some more pictures of the Chenangkas?

If there is a face on the nice Kutei/Modang mandau far right maybe you could upload it on the face thread?

Michael

Hullo Michael,

Here are the pix, as requested. Sorry about the delay.

BTW, no face that I can see on the mandau.

Best,

VVV · 26th May 2009, 11:29 AM

Thanks for sharing.
This is one of the most interesting swords I have seen so far this year (and I see a lot of Malay and Indonesian swords when I travel!).
I could just speculate that the hilt could be from NW Borneo and the blade imported. One of a kind!
If you ever get tired of it please let me know....

Michael

Dinggat · 6th June 2009, 12:41 PM

I made some photos of the other parang blades. Maybe some of you are interested (question "real deal vs. tourist art"):

Dinggat · 6th June 2009, 12:44 PM

VVV · 6th June 2009, 06:15 PM

Straight question = straight answer: They are all, except for maybe the first blade, for tourists or dancers, IMHO. The first one might be a utility blade?

Michael

Dinggat · 6th June 2009, 07:29 PM

Thank you.
So, basically as I expected. Yes the first one is a utility blade. It's not decorated, and the sheath is made from hardwood I think. It is very heavy and massive compared to the flimsy sheaths of the other parangs, despite being the smallest.

8th May 2009, 09:06 PM	#14
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo Dinggat, I just found some old notes on Kalimantan. Apparently, at some stage, I found that the Batak type sword was common in northern and western Kalimantan. I'll get back to you when I find some more info (or perhaps you'll already have it before then). Best, Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 8th May 2009 at 09:14 PM. Reason: correction of recipient nick

7th May 2009, 01:00 PM	#1
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	Blades from Sarawak, Malaysia Hi, I wanted to show my collection, and ask if anyone knows if these are all parangs of the Iban tribe of Sarawak or if they are from other tribes (or if it is even possible to say that). The first four: My parents brought them from Malaysia some 30 or more years ago (my Mom is from Sarawak, my Dad is from Germany but worked there, and they brought a lot of stuff with them when they moved to Germany): Another two, my mom brought them from Sarawak in 2007, so I don't know if they are old or new. Hope they are not tourist art. And I also got one blowpipe and two spears: ----------------------------------------------------- And finally, I also have a Piso Podang of the Batak tribe of Sumatra. This weapon had made it's way to Borneo into the possession of my mom's family. I don't know the age. My mom then brought it to Germany. Such Piso Podang are not common, but can sometimes be found in the old heirlooms of Iban families (who didn't already sell it). The Japanese style sword below is just worthless souvenir stuff from Spain, don't look at it

7th May 2009, 04:29 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Can't tell much about these without seeing the blades and lots of close-up photos. Just on the surface they look like the kind of stuff made for the higher end tourist trade.

7th May 2009, 07:10 PM	#3
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	All items except for the two parangs in pic #2 are well over 30 years old (I mean: They are in Germany since more than 30 years. How long they have existed before is beyond my knowledge). Did a "tourist art" industry already exist back then?

7th May 2009, 11:33 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE HEADHUNTING DAYS WERE OVER LONG AGO BUT THE TOURIST HUNTING DAYS WERE IN FULL SWING 30 YEARS AGO AND TOURISTS ARE STILL IN SEASON. IN YOUR FIRST PICTURE THE SMALLEST OF THE FOUR MANDAU APPEARS TO BE ONE MADE FOR ACTUAL VILLAGE USE AND MAY BE THE OLDEST. THE OTHERS WERE MADE EITHER FOR TOURISTS POSSIBLY FOR USE IN SHOWS FOR TOURISTS. THEY MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN USED IN CEREMONIES OR FOR PRESENTATION TO IMPORTANT VISITORS. THE OTHER TWO MANDAUS FALL INTO THIS CATAGORY. SOMETIMES A MANDAU LIKE THIS DOES HAVE A GOOD OLD BLADE BUT MOST OF THE TIME IT IS A NEW ONE AND THEY SOMETIMES EAT THE BLADES UP WITH ACID TO MAKE IT LOOK OLD. THE TWO SPEARS LOOK TOURIST DEFINITELY NOT TRADITIONAL DAYAK FORMS. THE SUMPIT (BLOWGUN) LOOKS GOOD BUT IF IT IS OLD OR NEW I CANT SAY. THE PISO PODANG IS FAIRLY COMMON IN BORNEO MOSTLY IN KUCHING I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY ARE THERE BUT IT WOULD SEEM A LOT OF THEM ARRIVED AS TRADE GOODS SOME TIME IN THE PAST. A NICE DISPLAY NOT OFTEN SEEN WHERE YOU NOW LIVE

8th May 2009, 08:13 AM	#10
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	According to the book of Evans about North Borneo tribes, the "podang" he is calling a "pedang" was used also in North Borneo (Sabah). There is also a pic of a man carrying a "podang" with him. Also the Ibans, as already known, liked this sword to be handled. Evans is saying that "probably" these blades were made in Brunei. This State lies between Sarawak and Sabah, so in my opinion this could be true. Does anyone has read other information written about it? Dinggat, you should buy yourself the book "iban art" from Heppell. It is a very nice book with nice pictures (You can also see this "podang" in it.) PS. the dayakswords your grandmother has in her house looks like the real thing. You can see already there the difference in used ones (grandmother), and not used ones (not included your "podang" as Willem already said). Regards, Maurice

8th May 2009, 09:09 AM	#11
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	I can at least confirm that the Iban sometimes prefer to use a Piso Podang (PP) for their traditional dances and performances instead of a real Iban weapon. Possibly an antique PP is a more prestigious thing to own for the individual Iban than a mere "normal" parang that everyone has. But one more thing I'm curious about: Unfortunately the blade of my PP is pretty rusted, but still I seem to remember that a smith's signature on the blade was visible. The funny thing is: The signature was made from European/Latin letters. What meaning could this have in regards to the "realness" of the weapon?

8th May 2009, 11:42 AM	#13
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	Oh, I'm not purist in any kind of way. I just want to find out as much as possible about this particular weapon. It's not like I would throw it away if I found out it was not "the real thing". As an amatuer linguist who learns a few Austronesian languages I'm very aware of the local differences (Podang, Pedang etc.). Apart from actual dialectic differences such different spellings can often be traced back to the Europeans who where the first one's to put a native language to paper. What sounded like "Pedang" to a British colonialist might have sounded like a "Podang" to his Dutch colleague, even though they basically heard the same word.

8th May 2009, 09:59 PM	#15
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=batak

9th May 2009, 12:44 AM	#17
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	Thank you all very much. So trade distributed the Piso Podangs to Borneo into the hands of the Iban (and I suppose other ethnic groups as well). I hope I wont forget to take the photos next time I'm home.

9th May 2009, 10:22 AM	#19
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice sword collection A.M. Next to your (probably not Borneo made but in this case) Batak Podang is a rare Malay sword called Chenangkas. And next to it a Parang Negara from the South. Could you please upload some more pictures of the Chenangkas? If there is a face on the nice Kutei/Modang mandau far right maybe you could upload it on the face thread? Michael

10th May 2009, 10:19 PM	#21
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Dinggat, On the Borneo Pedang you see hair tufts quite often. On the resembling Sumatran/Batak Piso Podang or the Malay Peninsular Pedang Shamshir it's not usual. Please note that most Pedang found in Borneo probably were made locally, like in the sword factories in Brunei as described in Evans. I doubt the old ones were imported from the Bataks. If imported I find it more probable they came from Malaysia or India, according to Gardner. Michael

10th May 2009, 11:44 PM	#22
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	Thanks for all those enlightening informations Is it known why exactly did the Batak choose to create hollow pommels if they did not put anything in there? Within that hollow space there's a small "sting" at my PP, I guess that's always the case. I hope all my questions are not too annoying. In the end I'm just playing parasite on all the knowledge that you probably gained by years-long research.

11th May 2009, 02:37 AM	#23
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS MAY BE JUST A STORY OR THE TRUTH SO UNTIL IT CAN BE PROVEN I TELL IT JUST AS A STORY. I WAS TOLD THE HOLLOW POMMEL REPRESENTS THE CUP MOHAMMED DRANK FROM EITHER BEFORE OR AFTER A BIG BATTLE. PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN FIND OUT IF THERE IS ANY FACTUAL BASE FOR THE STORY.

11th May 2009, 10:29 PM	#24
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	True or not, at least it is an interesting theory.

26th May 2009, 11:29 AM	#26
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for sharing. This is one of the most interesting swords I have seen so far this year (and I see a lot of Malay and Indonesian swords when I travel!). I could just speculate that the hilt could be from NW Borneo and the blade imported. One of a kind! If you ever get tired of it please let me know.... Michael

6th June 2009, 12:41 PM	#27
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	I made some photos of the other parang blades. Maybe some of you are interested (question "real deal vs. tourist art"):

6th June 2009, 12:44 PM	#28
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29

6th June 2009, 06:15 PM	#29
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Straight question = straight answer: They are all, except for maybe the first blade, for tourists or dancers, IMHO. The first one might be a utility blade? Michael

6th June 2009, 07:29 PM	#30
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	Thank you. So, basically as I expected. Yes the first one is a utility blade. It's not decorated, and the sheath is made from hardwood I think. It is very heavy and massive compared to the flimsy sheaths of the other parangs, despite being the smallest.