![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France
Posts: 472
|
![]()
I found this one yesterday, a short sword (48cm) from the Mongo (Ntomba, Ndengese) of Congo.
A really nice shape, I like it.It makes me think to the silhouette of a women with a long evening dress ! A good work of hammering and engraving on this blade. Luc |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
A Coco Chanel sword!
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]()
[QUOTE=Luc LEFEBVRE]I found this one yesterday, a short sword (48cm) from the Mongo (Ntomba, Ndengese) of Congo.
A really nice shape, I like it.It makes me think to the silhouette of a women with a long evening dress ! Viva le Differance! ![]() Lew |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Nice
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,773
|
![]()
Seriously I think many of these shapes may well be anthropomorphic, some possibly displaying fecundity. The shapes are abstract and very stylised a rounded mass may have its origin in the pregnant female form. Luc's avatar is often explained along with other similar versions as a man with outstretched arms in some learned journals. On the other hand I could be talking out of my @@@@ hole, hmmm. Tim
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]() Quote:
Luc's avatar: it is a "cho" or a "kaura" of a Kukri! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,885
|
![]()
It does seem pretty well established that many African edged weapons reflect key symbolism artistically rather than shapes intended to carry out practical functions.
This is often best illustrated by many of the forms of 'throwing knives' which are discussed in Spring ("African Arms & Armour", 1993, pp.77-78), in which the author notes that analysis of the cultural meanings of the weapon offer greater insight into its purpose than speculation on utilitarian application. The 'muder', a so called throwing knife (having no record of having ever been used as such) and produced by the Ingesanna of the Blue Nile province of Sudan, is carried essentially as a 'male fashion accessory' (Spring, op.cit.). The weapon is described as of 'female' form, the head (=striking section) the crossbar (=neck,body,breasts) and shaft and grip (=loins or legs). Spring notes these symbolic applications, as well as the local terming of the weapon ('the scorpion'....hmmm, the female association and this term seems applicable when thinking my ex-wives ![]() In any case I had to find out what all this fashion, evening gown etc stuff was about ![]() ![]() Now that I'm in touch with my feelings...I need a Bud ![]() All the best, Jim (this data from "Ngola: The Weapon as Authority, identity and Ritual Object in Sub-Saharan Africa", Norman Hurst, 1997, p.30) |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
|
![]() Quote:
Luc's avatar is from an African Congo sword not a kukri. http://lulef.free.fr/html/ngbaka.html Lew Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 27th February 2006 at 09:36 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 210
|
![]() Quote:
n2s |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France
Posts: 472
|
![]()
Interesting, this duality male/female in African weapons.
Another exemple with these Laka throwing knives called miya-bo, the nga-til is the male one, and the ngéégue the female : http://lulef.free.fr/html/laka.html "The King, Mbang is the guardian of the trowing knives, and without the autority of miya-bo he would have to resign the office.Once a year, at the rain-making festivals, the Mbang displays the miya-bo to the people.At other time of the year the throwing knives are kept in a special hut, the ngéégue, facing the setting sun, nga-til looking towards the dawn.This is also the way in which the bodies of Sara Daye men and women are placed when they are buried" from "African Arms & Armour" C.Spring I agree with the fact that the nature inspired the creator of the weapons, especially, just look at the different shape : leaves, branch...women ! Abstract or figurative like my avatar wich is sometimes describe as "the representation of a human being with raised arms, some see it even as the representation of female sexual organs, provided you hold the blade in an abnormal position, upside down." from "Tribal arms monographs vol I / N°2. But maybe this is the product of a delirious mind of an european... ![]() Do you know other exemple of male/female weapons, not especially African ? Luc |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France
Posts: 472
|
![]() Quote:
But this is my opinion... This is a particularity of Congo's weapons, with red copper or brass wire, as you know, the Congo was (is) a big producer of copper, especially in Katanga. It is a good grip for the handle, easy to work and decorative. Strands of copper used by european (electric motors...) were also "recycled". You can also find most of the traditional weapons, made with copper or brass blades, used as currency or for ceremony. Luc Luc |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,885
|
![]()
N2S, outstanding observation!! and extremely well placed. I had not thought of that and that is exactly the kind of thinking that is key in assessing the identification and cultural implications of ethnographic weapons.
Although as Luc has indicated, the regional origins of these weapons may not correspond directly to such adornments from other areas, I think the association is well placed. What has always amazed me about African weapons is the incredible diffusion via trade and intertribal contacts that network across the continent. Several years ago I worked on research on the so-called Zanzibar swords, which actually it seems, derived from Morocco, and such diffusion occurred via these same type networks, in this case trans-Saharan. Luc, also very well placed observations, and thank you for including the references! The weapons of Africa are intriguing and almost always a puzzle, and this kind of discussion really helps .The references help us keep our bearings in ongoing research, so we dont retravel the same roads.Thank you! All the best, Jim |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|