Helped need identifying a gun-maker, possibly French

dana_w · 1st April 2015, 11:14 PM

I could use some help identifying the maker of a pair of flintlock pistols. They look French to me. The barrel and lock-plate are marked “Goyel A Brest”, but a lower cased “a” is used on the lock plate. Could this mean Goyel in Brest? I know there can be great variation in the spelling for surnames.

Thanks!

Marcus den toom · 2nd April 2015, 11:20 AM

What about Goyet instead of Goyel?
My book by Johan f Stockel states there to be a Goyel in about 1690s. This pistol is not from that time but Goyel could have been working after this as well.
Brest is a city in France so "a Brest" is indeed the name where this person worked.

Style of this gun would be 1720s i think.

dana_w · 2nd April 2015, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

What about Goyet instead of Goyel?
My book by Johan f Stockel states there to be a Goyel in about 1690s. This pistol is not from that time but Goyel could have been working after this as well.
Brest is a city in France so "a Brest" is indeed the name where this person worked.

Style of this gun would be 1720s i think.

Can you send me a scan of the page from Stockel? I think you are right about the date. It could be a little earlier or a later.

I was thinking the same thing about Brest France, but didn't know if "Goyel a Brest" was another way of saying "Goyel in Brest".

corrado26 · 3rd April 2015, 03:16 PM

A gunmaker "Goyet à Brest" is unknown in the "New Stoeckel" and in the "le Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France". So I think that the statement in the older Stoeckel might be wrong!

The pistol is certainly made in the years about 1740. A pistol of very similar style made by Jean Giraud of St.Etienne in my collection is made in these years.
corrado26

dana_w · 3rd April 2015, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

A gunmaker "Goyet à Brest" is unknown in the "New Stoeckel" and in the "le Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France". So I think that the statement in the older Stoeckel might be wrong!

The pistol is certainly made in the years about 1740. A pistol of very similar style made by Jean Giraud of St.Etienne in my collection is made in these years.
corrado26

Thanks corrado26. That information is helpful. I don't know why, but I like to try and find information about a maker if I can.

Do you agree with Marcus den toom that the inscription should be read as "Goyel in Brest"?

dana_w · 3rd April 2015, 10:17 PM

Here is a photo of the pair together.

This photo is copyright (c) 2014 by Dana K. Williams. All Rights Are Reserved

Marcus den toom · 4th April 2015, 10:55 AM

The shape of the lockplate of Dana's gun is still more curved in the traditional "banana" shape. This form was already obsolete in the 1730s. Also if i look closely at the name on the lockplate i would swear i see GoyeT with a t (or a l with a scratch trough it?)

This thread covers some of this as well.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18292

CSinTX · 4th April 2015, 07:42 PM

Beautiful guns. Are 18th century flintlocks typically safe for firing? I wouldn't mind acquiring one to harvest a whitetail doe at close range. I would of course do extensive research on load data first.

corrado26 · 5th April 2015, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

Do you agree with Marcus den toom that the inscription should be read as "Goyel in Brest"?

It is unimportant wether the name is "Goyet" or "Goyel", because none of these names is mentioned in the reference books. This will say but nothing, because lots of gunmakers whose names are to be found on guns or pistols are not documented in the "Neue Stöckel" or the "Le Qui est Qui".
corrado26

rickystl · 5th April 2015, 06:53 PM

Hi Dana. Can't help with the ID, but I'm confident they are French and pre-1750. Notice the lack of pan-to-frizzen arm. Beautiful pair of early French pistols. So is your's Corrado26! Thanks for posting. Rick.

dana_w · 10th April 2015, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

It is unimportant wether the name is "Goyet" or "Goyel", because none of these names is mentioned in the reference books. This will say but nothing, because lots of gunmakers whose names are to be found on guns or pistols are not documented in the "Neue Stöckel" or the "Le Qui est Qui".
corrado26

corrado26

Do you think their is any chance that the makers surname is Brest?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

The shape of the lockplate of Dana's gun is still more curved in the traditional "banana" shape. This form was already obsolete in the 1730s. Also if i look closely at the name on the lockplate i would swear i see GoyeT with a t (or a l with a scratch trough it?)

That could be Marcus den toom, but I don't think so. I'll post a closeup of the best lock plate in high contrast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Dana. Can't help with the ID, but I'm confident they are French and pre-1750. Notice the lack of pan-to-frizzen arm. Beautiful pair of early French pistols. So is your's Corrado26! Thanks for posting. Rick.

Thanks Rick!

corrado26 · 11th April 2015, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

corrado26
Do you think their is any chance that the makers surname is Brest?

I've checked the books: No, there is no chance that the surname was "Brest". If "Brest" would be part of the surname than it should read "Goyet de Brest". Brest is definitely the French city where this gunmaker has been working.

corrado26

dana_w · 11th April 2015, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

If "Brest" would be part of the surname than it should read "Goyet de Brest". Brest is definitely the French city where this gunmaker has been working.

Thanks corrado26!

dana_w · 4th November 2019, 09:13 PM

A few more shots. I've almost given up finding the maker.

dana_w · 12th November 2019, 05:13 PM

Hugues Courant from the Municipal and Metropolitan Archives in Brest France recently responded to my request for information on the maker of these pistols. Although they have no specific information on a Goyel or Goyet arms manufacturer, they have 3 registers of congregations of inhabitants and craftsmen for the period. These registers have been scanned and are available on their website. Unfortunately, there is no alphabetical index, and I don't speak or read French.

https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4DC...HH9/ILUMP10379

https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4DC...H10/ILUMP10379

https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4DC...H10/ILUMP10379

There is no entry for a Goyel or Goyet in Stockel or
Repertoire d arquebusiers et de fournisseurs français (The most complete existing reference of French armourers.)

fernando · 12th November 2019, 09:03 PM

Websites not allowed to visit ?

.

dana_w · 12th November 2019, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Websites not allowed to visit ?

.

It looks like cutting and pasting from the email didn't work. I've corrected the links. Please try them now.

fernando · 13th November 2019, 12:22 PM

It takes some time to open ... but it works

corrado26 · 6th June 2020, 11:28 AM

I checked the name "GOYET" a second time and found

- GOYET, arquebusier cannonier a St.Etienne en 1680-1700

Perhaps a son of this Goyet moved to Brest during the 18. century?!

1st April 2015, 11:14 PM	#1
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Help needed identifying a gun-maker, possibly French I could use some help identifying the maker of a pair of flintlock pistols. They look French to me. The barrel and lock-plate are marked “Goyel A Brest”, but a lower cased “a” is used on the lock plate. Could this mean Goyel in Brest? I know there can be great variation in the spelling for surnames. Thanks! Attached Images Last edited by dana_w; 2nd April 2015 at 04:13 AM.

3rd April 2015, 03:16 PM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	A gunmaker "Goyet à Brest" is unknown in the "New Stoeckel" and in the "le Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France". So I think that the statement in the older Stoeckel might be wrong! The pistol is certainly made in the years about 1740. A pistol of very similar style made by Jean Giraud of St.Etienne in my collection is made in these years. corrado26 Attached Images

3rd April 2015, 10:17 PM	#6
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Here is a photo of the pair together. This photo is copyright (c) 2014 by Dana K. Williams. All Rights Are Reserved Attached Images

4th November 2019, 09:13 PM	#14
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	A few more shots. I've almost given up finding the maker. Attached Images

12th November 2019, 05:13 PM	#15
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Hugues Courant from the Municipal and Metropolitan Archives in Brest France recently responded to my request for information on the maker of these pistols. Although they have no specific information on a Goyel or Goyet arms manufacturer, they have 3 registers of congregations of inhabitants and craftsmen for the period. These registers have been scanned and are available on their website. Unfortunately, there is no alphabetical index, and I don't speak or read French. https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4DC...HH9/ILUMP10379 https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4DC...H10/ILUMP10379 https://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4DC...H10/ILUMP10379 There is no entry for a Goyel or Goyet in Stockel or Repertoire d arquebusiers et de fournisseurs français (The most complete existing reference of French armourers.) Last edited by dana_w; 12th November 2019 at 09:19 PM.

2nd April 2015, 11:20 AM	#2
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	What about Goyet instead of Goyel? My book by Johan f Stockel states there to be a Goyel in about 1690s. This pistol is not from that time but Goyel could have been working after this as well. Brest is a city in France so "a Brest" is indeed the name where this person worked. Style of this gun would be 1720s i think.

4th April 2015, 10:55 AM	#7
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	The shape of the lockplate of Dana's gun is still more curved in the traditional "banana" shape. This form was already obsolete in the 1730s. Also if i look closely at the name on the lockplate i would swear i see GoyeT with a t (or a l with a scratch trough it?) This thread covers some of this as well. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18292

4th April 2015, 07:42 PM	#8
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Beautiful guns. Are 18th century flintlocks typically safe for firing? I wouldn't mind acquiring one to harvest a whitetail doe at close range. I would of course do extensive research on load data first.

5th April 2015, 06:53 PM	#10
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Dana. Can't help with the ID, but I'm confident they are French and pre-1750. Notice the lack of pan-to-frizzen arm. Beautiful pair of early French pistols. So is your's Corrado26! Thanks for posting. Rick.

12th November 2019, 09:03 PM	#16
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Websites not allowed to visit ? .

13th November 2019, 12:22 PM	#18
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It takes some time to open ... but it works

6th June 2020, 11:28 AM	#19
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	I checked the name "GOYET" a second time and found - GOYET, arquebusier cannonier a St.Etienne en 1680-1700 Perhaps a son of this Goyet moved to Brest during the 18. century?!