German Morion around 1600

AHorsa · 15th February 2020, 11:52 AM

Dear all,

this week I got my first (old) Helmet. It is sayd that it is German around 1600.
It was subsequently "re-blackened", which the pre-owner removed on the outside (on the inside it is still remaining). There are still remains of (what I think is) the original blackening outside.
It is made from laminated steel and quite light in my oppinion (around 1.15 kg). I only had an 16th century breastplate before, which was really heavy, so I was suprised by the low weight of the helmet.
There is a repair on the rim where I am not sure if it is old or of newer age. What do you think? I hope everything is okay with the helmet.

Looking forward to your comments

Best regards
Andreas

fernando · 15th February 2020, 12:15 PM

It looks good ... to me, Andreas. The repair doesn't look modern; and not a problem, in any case. You are right in that it is a light example; hopefuly still authentic. Let us see what other members tell.

ulfberth · 15th February 2020, 03:48 PM

Hi Andreas,
As Fernando said ,the helmet is Original don't worry, it is indeed a light weight version, but as on close helmets and other models this weight can vary a lot.
kind regards
Ulfberth

ulfberth · 15th February 2020, 03:59 PM

Although most will weigh around 1500 grams, the first one is from the Metropolitan Museum and weighs 1150 grams and the second one is in the art zeughaus museum in Slothurn Germany and weighs 1180 grams.

AHorsa · 15th February 2020, 04:30 PM

Hello Gentlemen

Thanks a lot for confirming its authenticity and for the supplementary images!

Best regards
Andreas

Lansquenet59 · 15th February 2020, 05:41 PM

Hello,
It is perfectly authentic. It is a very simple model, made in two parts, often light, I have one of a similar weight.

AHorsa · 15th February 2020, 11:41 PM

Thanks for the further opinion. Happy to hear that.
Is it possible to say whether this piece was made for military purposes, for night watches or guards or others?

Lansquenet59 · 16th February 2020, 12:11 PM

For me, it can be quite military, for the infantry. The models with decorations, are generally for the guards of the German cities.

AHorsa · 8th March 2020, 03:08 PM

Hi Lansquenet,

thanks for the info!

I figured out that under the newer blackening there is (active) rust partially. So I removed this new blackening. Now one can see different layer of older colours. The lowest layer seems to be a homogenious greyish/black, partially a bit blueish, thin cover. It looks like burnished. Was burnishing already known and used around 1600? Or might that have been made in later times?

Best regards
Andreas

Lansquenet59 · 8th March 2020, 06:39 PM

Hi Andreas,

At the time, the armor was either polished white. Or with a blue - black tint. It was heated to a certain temperature to achieve this result. (According to my knowledge).
So for me, it is its original color that we see there.

AHorsa · 9th March 2020, 11:23 PM

thanks for your opinion, Lansquenet!

I found some pieces with similar tint:

https://www.tulliehouse.co.uk/thecol...-morion-helmet

http://www.allenantiques.com/images/A-184-detail.jpg

15th February 2020, 11:52 AM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	German Morion around 1600 Dear all, this week I got my first (old) Helmet. It is sayd that it is German around 1600. It was subsequently "re-blackened", which the pre-owner removed on the outside (on the inside it is still remaining). There are still remains of (what I think is) the original blackening outside. It is made from laminated steel and quite light in my oppinion (around 1.15 kg). I only had an 16th century breastplate before, which was really heavy, so I was suprised by the low weight of the helmet. There is a repair on the rim where I am not sure if it is old or of newer age. What do you think? I hope everything is okay with the helmet. Looking forward to your comments Best regards Andreas Attached Images Last edited by AHorsa; 15th February 2020 at 12:06 PM.

15th February 2020, 03:59 PM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Although most will weigh around 1500 grams, the first one is from the Metropolitan Museum and weighs 1150 grams and the second one is in the art zeughaus museum in Slothurn Germany and weighs 1180 grams. Attached Images

8th March 2020, 03:08 PM	#9
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Hi Lansquenet, thanks for the info! I figured out that under the newer blackening there is (active) rust partially. So I removed this new blackening. Now one can see different layer of older colours. The lowest layer seems to be a homogenious greyish/black, partially a bit blueish, thin cover. It looks like burnished. Was burnishing already known and used around 1600? Or might that have been made in later times? Best regards Andreas Attached Images

15th February 2020, 12:15 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It looks good ... to me, Andreas. The repair doesn't look modern; and not a problem, in any case. You are right in that it is a light example; hopefuly still authentic. Let us see what other members tell.

15th February 2020, 03:48 PM	#3
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Hi Andreas, As Fernando said ,the helmet is Original don't worry, it is indeed a light weight version, but as on close helmets and other models this weight can vary a lot. kind regards Ulfberth

15th February 2020, 04:30 PM	#5
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Hello Gentlemen Thanks a lot for confirming its authenticity and for the supplementary images! Best regards Andreas

15th February 2020, 05:41 PM	#6
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Hello, It is perfectly authentic. It is a very simple model, made in two parts, often light, I have one of a similar weight.

15th February 2020, 11:41 PM	#7
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Thanks for the further opinion. Happy to hear that. Is it possible to say whether this piece was made for military purposes, for night watches or guards or others?

16th February 2020, 12:11 PM	#8
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	For me, it can be quite military, for the infantry. The models with decorations, are generally for the guards of the German cities.

8th March 2020, 06:39 PM	#10
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Hi Andreas, At the time, the armor was either polished white. Or with a blue - black tint. It was heated to a certain temperature to achieve this result. (According to my knowledge). So for me, it is its original color that we see there.

9th March 2020, 11:23 PM	#11
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	thanks for your opinion, Lansquenet! I found some pieces with similar tint: https://www.tulliehouse.co.uk/thecol...-morion-helmet http://www.allenantiques.com/images/A-184-detail.jpg