Leaf Patterned Bladed Moro Kris?

Lew · 15th July 2005, 04:25 AM

Hi Guys

You might have seen this one before I picked it up at Timonium. Ibeam was over at my house last week and noticed a leaf like pattern on this laminated blade. Here is a pic of it and you can see these leaf looking things going up the blade on either side? Also is there any way to clean up the solder on the baca baca?

Lew

Spunjer · 15th July 2005, 09:49 PM

nice kris, louie. would be interested to know what the filipino weapons experts to to say about it.

Rick · 16th July 2005, 12:37 AM

I'm no 'expert'

but it has a very interesting gangya . Is the baca baca on the tail side made from wire ?
The 'leaf' marks are unusual and I wonder if they are intentional ; they certainly look so .
A light citrus etch might tell more .
A Mindanao sword from the look of the scabbard .

Lew · 16th July 2005, 04:40 PM

Hi Guys

I did a citrus etch and this is how it turned out. You can really get a good look at the pattern in the blade now.

Lew

Battara · 16th July 2005, 09:14 PM

Very interesting pattern. More etching might bring more out. I remember this Maguindanao piece at the show when you showed it to me.

Ferguson · 17th July 2005, 11:49 AM

Gorgeous!

Steve

Bill · 21st July 2005, 05:52 PM

Nice sword Lew, What are your thoughts? Do you think it has its original ganga. A work in progress, that never was completed, to the original owners hopes? From the pics, it looks like a quality 19thC blade, with early 20thC hilt, & the stirups were temps?

Lew · 21st July 2005, 08:03 PM

Hi Bill

The ganga are meant to be that way I have seen this type without file work before on a few examples mostly Maguindanao kris. The baca baca seem to have been either added or repeared at a later date do to the presents of some sloppy solder work. Everything else seems original to the kris which I place between 1900-1920s. The scabbard might be a later addition also?

Lew

Rick · 21st July 2005, 08:13 PM

Lew , other than the leaf shaped markings are there any indications that this blade is layer forged ?

Bill · 21st July 2005, 08:37 PM

Looks like the asang-asang that goes over the elephant, are 2 seperate peices of metal. If you think the solder was done early 20thC, my vote would be to leave it alone. To alter it you need to rub some flux on it, heat it with a soldering iron, not on the solder but ajoining metal, & then wipe with a stiff piece of cloth, canvas would be perfect. To totally remove it, no flux needed, just heat up & use an old paint brush to flick it off when you see it starts to melt, keep heating & flicking untill its gone. A large soldering iron should work, if not you can use a small torch, but I'd advise against it unless you're familar with using one, you might mark up the piece & the solder will splatter.

Lew · 21st July 2005, 08:38 PM

Rick

The blade is laminated it has a separate hardened inserted edge and I see some watering in other sections of the blade. Are you going to be attending the sword seminar at Ashokan this year with Lee Jones? If so I will bring it along for inspection.

Lew

Bill · 21st July 2005, 08:53 PM

should also note that any solder left in place will be real shiny for a couple of years & if the stirrup is copper alloy, the solder should melt first, but if you use a torch you may start to melt the stirrup very quickly.

Lew · 21st July 2005, 09:20 PM

Thanks Bill

Steve Ferguson sent me a site where I can buy solder wicking stuff that you just overlay and apply a solder iron and it should clean it up without a mess. Or I may just leave it alone?

Lew

Rick · 21st July 2005, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Rick

The blade is laminated it has a separate hardened inserted edge and I see some watering in other sections of the blade. Are you going to be attending the sword seminar at Ashokan this year with Lee Jones? If so I will bring it along for inspection.

Lew

Hmmm , when and where is that Lew ?

Lew · 22nd July 2005, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hmmm , when and where is that Lew ?

Rick

The seminar is held around the second weekend in September at the New Paltz field campus in Kingston N.Y. it's a friday evening all day saturday and through about 12:00pm sunday meals and lodging are included cost about $200 for the weekend. You can contact Lee for more info.

Lew

Lee · 18th June 2017, 06:33 PM

As there is a current discussion on a pattern-welded keris I thought it might be worthwhile to reawaken this old thread of Lew's.

The darkened patches likened to veins of a leaf above are indeed iron inlays.

At first glance one thinks the blade is a single piece, but close examination does show there is a separate gangya with the seam from the angle largely hidden by one of the asang-asang. A number of additional images are included in the archive of Lew's collection.

15th July 2005, 04:25 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Leaf Patterned Bladed Moro Kris? Hi Guys You might have seen this one before I picked it up at Timonium. Ibeam was over at my house last week and noticed a leaf like pattern on this laminated blade. Here is a pic of it and you can see these leaf looking things going up the blade on either side? Also is there any way to clean up the solder on the baca baca? Lew Attached Images

16th July 2005, 04:40 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Guys I did a citrus etch and this is how it turned out. You can really get a good look at the pattern in the blade now. Lew Attached Images

18th June 2017, 06:33 PM	#16
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Pattern welding and Inlays in Moro Swords As there is a current discussion on a pattern-welded keris I thought it might be worthwhile to reawaken this old thread of Lew's. The darkened patches likened to veins of a leaf above are indeed iron inlays. At first glance one thinks the blade is a single piece, but close examination does show there is a separate gangya with the seam from the angle largely hidden by one of the asang-asang. A number of additional images are included in the archive of Lew's collection. Attached Images

15th July 2005, 09:49 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	nice kris, louie. would be interested to know what the filipino weapons experts to to say about it.

16th July 2005, 12:37 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I'm no 'expert' but it has a very interesting gangya . Is the baca baca on the tail side made from wire ? The 'leaf' marks are unusual and I wonder if they are intentional ; they certainly look so . A light citrus etch might tell more . A Mindanao sword from the look of the scabbard .

16th July 2005, 09:14 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Very interesting pattern. More etching might bring more out. I remember this Maguindanao piece at the show when you showed it to me.

17th July 2005, 11:49 AM	#6
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Gorgeous! Steve

21st July 2005, 05:52 PM	#7
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Nice sword Lew, What are your thoughts? Do you think it has its original ganga. A work in progress, that never was completed, to the original owners hopes? From the pics, it looks like a quality 19thC blade, with early 20thC hilt, & the stirups were temps?

21st July 2005, 08:03 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Bill The ganga are meant to be that way I have seen this type without file work before on a few examples mostly Maguindanao kris. The baca baca seem to have been either added or repeared at a later date do to the presents of some sloppy solder work. Everything else seems original to the kris which I place between 1900-1920s. The scabbard might be a later addition also? Lew

21st July 2005, 08:13 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Lew , other than the leaf shaped markings are there any indications that this blade is layer forged ?

21st July 2005, 08:37 PM	#10
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Looks like the asang-asang that goes over the elephant, are 2 seperate peices of metal. If you think the solder was done early 20thC, my vote would be to leave it alone. To alter it you need to rub some flux on it, heat it with a soldering iron, not on the solder but ajoining metal, & then wipe with a stiff piece of cloth, canvas would be perfect. To totally remove it, no flux needed, just heat up & use an old paint brush to flick it off when you see it starts to melt, keep heating & flicking untill its gone. A large soldering iron should work, if not you can use a small torch, but I'd advise against it unless you're familar with using one, you might mark up the piece & the solder will splatter.

21st July 2005, 08:38 PM	#11
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rick The blade is laminated it has a separate hardened inserted edge and I see some watering in other sections of the blade. Are you going to be attending the sword seminar at Ashokan this year with Lee Jones? If so I will bring it along for inspection. Lew

21st July 2005, 08:53 PM	#12
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	should also note that any solder left in place will be real shiny for a couple of years & if the stirrup is copper alloy, the solder should melt first, but if you use a torch you may start to melt the stirrup very quickly.

21st July 2005, 09:20 PM	#13
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Thanks Bill Steve Ferguson sent me a site where I can buy solder wicking stuff that you just overlay and apply a solder iron and it should clean it up without a mess. Or I may just leave it alone? Lew