2016 Gurkha Museum visit with Jerry

sirupate · 4th February 2016, 11:46 AM

Had a super day at the GM, it was good to see a couple of old friends Gavin (the curator) and Mergh Rai and discuss with Gavin various aspects of kukri supply, as well as to do some research.
I was also able to get Jerry to verify and confirm handle type of the issued kukri (in the 'Official' picture) of Gobarsing of the 1/4th Gurkhas in Burma in WW2, which is of the ring/banded with rivet style of the same type in the picture of the mannequined Gurkha

sirupate · 4th February 2016, 11:51 AM

I had a chance to browse through some of Villiers-Stuarts marvellous photographic records of his battalion and regiment

sirupate · 4th February 2016, 11:54 AM

Some of the displays

sirupate · 4th February 2016, 12:03 PM

Some of the kukri

sirupate · 10th February 2016, 02:22 PM

Hi guys, I took this picture of the below sword at the GM on the recent visit, which was potentially carried by Officers of the 8th Assam Rifles, later 6th GR C.1830, is it based on the French sabres of the same period? or another European's countries sabre?
Thanks in advance Simon

estcrh · 15th February 2016, 07:36 AM

It is interesting to see the Afghan choora and Tibetan weapons in the display.

sirupate · 16th February 2016, 12:15 PM

They are nicely made too Estcrh, glad you like them

sirupate · 17th February 2016, 01:38 PM

I managed to get a slightly better view of the Tibetan swords Estcrh

TVV · 17th February 2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirupate

Hi guys, I took this picture of the below sword at the GM on the recent visit, which was potentially carried by Officers of the 8th Assam Rifles, later 6th GR C.1830, is it based on the French sabres of the same period? or another European's countries sabre?
Thanks in advance Simon

It does indeed look similar to the French AN XI cavalry sword. The Russians based their M1827 on the French pattern, and other European countries probably copied it as well. Posting the picture in the European section of the forum will probably produce more comments, as the folks there are a lot more knowledgeable than me.

Teodor

sirupate · 17th February 2016, 06:48 PM

Many thanks Teodor, I already have as the post was slipping into obscurity, but once again many thanks for the reply and answer

estcrh · 24th March 2016, 04:00 AM

Any info on this type of hilt, I have seen it on both kora and kukri with dates ranging from the 19th to 20th century.

dennee · 24th March 2016, 10:48 PM

Very nice. Was there any provenance info on the labels for the Bhutanese swords? That is, the reason why they are in a Gurkha collection? Are they captures from the Younghusband expedition, for instance?

The short sword is quite interesting. Ones of that length usually seem to be working knives without such quality fittings.

estcrh · 25th March 2016, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennee

Very nice. Was there any provenance info on the labels for the Bhutanese swords? That is, the reason why they are in a Gurkha collection? Are they captures from the Younghusband expedition, for instance?

The short sword is quite interesting. Ones of that length usually seem to be working knives without such quality fittings.

The description appears to say...."Gurkha kukri, Tibetian swords and Pathan knives presented to Field Marshal Archibald Percival Wavell while viceroy of India 1947". Someone will have to fill in the details as to why they ended up in this particular museum.

sirupate · 29th March 2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Any info on this type of hilt, I have seen it on both kora and kukri with dates ranging from the 19th to 20th century.

That type of hilt on khunda and kukri is quite rare in terms of Nepal, why it was put on Khunda I do not know, as its primary function was one of use in sacrificial duties, whether it was copied from Tulwar, or a Sikh influence etc again I am sorry to say I don't know
The earliest I have seen that type of hilt on kukri is from the Palpa war in 1806 pictures attached from my visit in 2009

sirupate · 29th March 2016, 01:26 PM

Jung Bahadur Rana (1817-1877), in the national Museum all the khunda have the classic handle as per this picture

sirupate · 29th March 2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennee

Very nice. Was there any provenance info on the labels for the Bhutanese swords? That is, the reason why they are in a Gurkha collection? Are they captures from the Younghusband expedition, for instance?

The short sword is quite interesting. Ones of that length usually seem to be working knives without such quality fittings.

I'm afraid I don't have any info about why the Viceroy was presented the swords etc. or why they ended up in the GM. But Wavell being the Viceroy would have been presented all sorts of stuff. Perhaps his close association with Slim was the reason the swords etc. ended up in the GM, but I honestly do not know.

shayde78 · 12th January 2018, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Any info on this type of hilt, I have seen it on both kora and kukri with dates ranging from the 19th to 20th century.

Wondering if anyone knows more about kora blades with these hilts. I have seen them listed as 'kharga' (such as
here ), but don't know much about the influences of these hilts (that look decidedly European rather than indigenous)
I stumbled upon one and picked it up for nearly nothing, so I didn't do much research beforehand.
Thoughts?

Jens Nordlunde · 12th January 2018, 10:41 PM

Shadye78, if you really want to know more about these blades, you should look at South India - centuries back.

shayde78 · 12th January 2018, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Shadye78, if you really want to know more about these blades, you should look at South India - centuries back.

Thanks, Jens!
Are you referencing the ayudha katti from around Karnataka? I am always curious about origin of weapon forms, but in this case, I was mostly concerned with determining when kora blades were mounted in these gilts, and if that points to a specific place of origin for these specific weapons.
Still, if you have info on the origin of the kids and related blades, I'm curious to hear more

Jens Nordlunde · 28th January 2018, 10:30 PM

Koras were used in the south very early, and so were kukris.
Why they stopped using them is unknown to me, but maybe you can research it.

4th February 2016, 11:46 AM	#1
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	2016 Gurkha Museum visit with Jerry Had a super day at the GM, it was good to see a couple of old friends Gavin (the curator) and Mergh Rai and discuss with Gavin various aspects of kukri supply, as well as to do some research. I was also able to get Jerry to verify and confirm handle type of the issued kukri (in the 'Official' picture) of Gobarsing of the 1/4th Gurkhas in Burma in WW2, which is of the ring/banded with rivet style of the same type in the picture of the mannequined Gurkha Attached Images Last edited by sirupate; 4th February 2016 at 12:32 PM.

4th February 2016, 11:51 AM	#2
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	I had a chance to browse through some of Villiers-Stuarts marvellous photographic records of his battalion and regiment Attached Images

4th February 2016, 11:54 AM	#3
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Some of the displays Attached Images

4th February 2016, 12:03 PM	#4
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Some of the kukri Attached Images

10th February 2016, 02:22 PM	#5
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hi guys, I took this picture of the below sword at the GM on the recent visit, which was potentially carried by Officers of the 8th Assam Rifles, later 6th GR C.1830, is it based on the French sabres of the same period? or another European's countries sabre? Thanks in advance Simon Attached Images

15th February 2016, 07:36 AM	#6
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	It is interesting to see the Afghan choora and Tibetan weapons in the display. Attached Images

16th February 2016, 12:15 PM	#7
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	They are nicely made too Estcrh, glad you like them

17th February 2016, 01:38 PM	#8
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	I managed to get a slightly better view of the Tibetan swords Estcrh Attached Images

17th February 2016, 06:48 PM	#10
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Many thanks Teodor, I already have as the post was slipping into obscurity, but once again many thanks for the reply and answer

24th March 2016, 04:00 AM	#11
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Any info on this type of hilt, I have seen it on both kora and kukri with dates ranging from the 19th to 20th century. Attached Images

24th March 2016, 10:48 PM	#12
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	Very nice. Was there any provenance info on the labels for the Bhutanese swords? That is, the reason why they are in a Gurkha collection? Are they captures from the Younghusband expedition, for instance? The short sword is quite interesting. Ones of that length usually seem to be working knives without such quality fittings.

29th March 2016, 01:26 PM	#15
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Jung Bahadur Rana (1817-1877), in the national Museum all the khunda have the classic handle as per this picture Attached Images

12th January 2018, 10:41 PM	#18
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Shadye78, if you really want to know more about these blades, you should look at South India - centuries back.

28th January 2018, 10:30 PM	#20
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Koras were used in the south very early, and so were kukris. Why they stopped using them is unknown to me, but maybe you can research it.