Possible Antique Bullet Extractor? - Medical

[Anandalal N.]

Any thoughts welcome.

Used to extract bullets lodged in the human body? Syringe shaped. When plunger depressed the grabber opens up and so may be carefully moved around the lodged bullet for extraction.

[Anandalal N.]

See also:

http://www.ssplprints.com/image/1308...n-17th-century

Note that this instrument displayed here is slimmer and so easily inserted into the opening caused by the travelling bullet. The object illustrated in the above post has a widening at the base that is not consistent with this type of use?

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Anandalal N.

Any thoughts welcome.

Used to extract bullets lodged in the human body? Syringe shaped. When plunger depressed the grabber opens up and so may be carefully moved around the lodged bullet for extraction.

Hello,

this thing is too large for a bullet extractor.

Some time ago I have read a very interesting german paper from late medieval about the treatment of arrow and bullet wounds.
In most cases the bullet/arrow was left in the wound and they used different mixtures to cause ulceration (purulence), which brings the bullet out of the hole by itself or often by gravity.


Roland

[Anandalal N.]

Hi Roland,

The more I look at this the more I tend to agree with you that this would be cumbersome to use as a bullet extractor though it follows the same principle.

As for leaving the bullet in the hole there seems to have been multiplicity of opinion. For example Thom. Longmore in a Treatise on Gunshot Wounds 1862 states the following:

On arrival at the hospital, where comparative leisure and absence of exposure afford means of careful diagnosis and definitive treatment, the following are the points to be attended to by the surgeon: firstly, examination of the wound with a view to obtaining the correct knowledge of its nature and extent; secondly, removal of any foreign bodies which may have lodged; thirdly, adjustment of lacerated structures; and fourthly, the application of the primary dressings.

[RobertGuy]

Perhaps culinary rather than medical?

[RobertGuy]

Just found an even closer match

[fernando]

That was my instinctive guess; just didn't want to disenchant the thread author .

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Anandalal N.

Hi Roland,

The more I look at this the more I tend to agree with you that this would be cumbersome to use as a bullet extractor though it follows the same principle.

As for leaving the bullet in the hole there seems to have been multiplicity of opinion. For example Thom. Longmore in a Treatise on Gunshot Wounds 1862 states the following:

On arrival at the hospital, where comparative leisure and absence of exposure afford means of careful diagnosis and definitive treatment, the following are the points to be attended to by the surgeon: firstly, examination of the wound with a view to obtaining the correct knowledge of its nature and extent; secondly, removal of any foreign bodies which may have lodged; thirdly, adjustment of lacerated structures; and fourthly, the application of the primary dressings.

Hello Anandalal,

Thats pretty interesting for me. One reason could be the discovery of Morphine in the early 19th century. In Medieval and Renaissance times they only had alcohol, a leather strap between the teeth and/or a wooden hammer for "anesthetization". But lead is not very healthy inside the body. This might be one reason for the different treatment of shootet wounds.


best,
Roland

[Anandalal N.]

Hi Roland,

Clearly you may be on to something. In fact Dr. Longmore advocates the use of Chloroform as an anaesthetic agent although there is interestingly no mention of Morphine that I came across. He states: The complete applicability of chloroform on the field to injuries caused by gunshot, as to all others in civil practice, is established among Continental surgeons, and among a majority of British army surgeons.

Thanks Robert. That settles the issue as to what it is though very curious that an Ice Grabber should follow the design of a plunger in a syringe.

Best.

[Anandalal N.]

Since we are on the topic does anyone have examples of arrow and bullet extractors?

Rgds.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Anandalal N.

...In fact Dr. Longmore advocates the use of Chloroform as an anaesthetic agent although there is interestingly no mention of Morphine that I came across. He states: The complete applicability of chloroform on the field to injuries caused by gunshot, as to all others in civil practice, is established among Continental surgeons, and among a majority of British army surgeons...

Hi Anandalal,
You may read out there that Morphine, being a strong analgesic, is or was used before induction or during maintenance of anasthesy, to potentiate sedation.
Concerning Clorophorm, this was indeed a controversial composit but, there being apparently no alternative, this still was used as late as in 1950, having myself been put asleep with it.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

In Eastern regions warriors wore a silk vest which following the principle that silk is stronger than steel thus there was a degree of protection and that on the outer armour being penetrated the silk material closed around the arrowhead enabling later extraction.

[Jim McDougall]

In the Wild West, the old images of the fancy dressed gamblers wearing silk vests in the saloons made them look dandy. Truth was that it had been realized that silk was powerfully resistant to many bullet types, especially the cap and ball with lower velocity.
Most guns in the 70s and 80s west in towns and saloons were basically lower caliber and smaller 'pocket' type pistols as the wearing of guns openy was typically prohibited in town.

In the early 20th the military was interested in developing bullet resistant vests and material using silk, however it was not pursued, probably cost?

In one shooting instance in a saloon in c. 1880s, the attending doctor was astonished that a silk handkerchief on the victim had been carried into the wound, and surrounded the bullet but did not penetrate the silk.
Unfortunately the wound was fatal, but bullet came out handily.

[kronckew]

archduke ferdinand was wearing a thick silk vest when he was assassinated along with his wife. unfortunately he was shot in the neck an inch above the upper limit of said vest & it severed his jugular (not sure about his wife). tests done on a reconstructed section of such a vest shot at with the same make/mode of pistol (a 9mm automatic) at the same 2 metres, they proved it worked, stopping penetration and spreading the impact. *

greeks and romans at one time used folded linen armour, efficacious against arrows and slashes. as did poor archers with padded jackets in the anglo-french 100yrs. war. modern soldiers and police carry on the tradition with kevlar vests, helmets and gloves. the english in the crimean war complained about their new fancy quill backed blades bending on the greatcoats of their russian opponents, making their thrusts ineffective.

the romans used an arrow extractor that covered the barbs from behind when it could not be pushed thru & out the other side. they also understood the need to cleanse the wound of debris and used strong vinegar as a disinfectant, they had a better medical system than most modern battlefields up to very recently.

*- the BBC had a two-part documentary on the development of english firearms, i recorded it last week. watched it last night in fact. they had the segment on the duke and his bullet proof silk vest. the test was done at the royal armoury at leeds, uk. coincidental timing

[fernando]

They don't make bullet extractors like they used to ,
During my stay in the Wild West, bullets were extracted with a Bowie knife ... and anesthetic was wiskey. After the surgery we disinfected the wound by burning it with the Bowie point heated up in the fire. Do you guys never see te movies ?