Sword of Davout, Marshal of France

[Iliad]

Hi guys, I have been reading a book about the Napoleonic wars, and it contained a pic of Davout with his sword. I am curious as to what sword a Marshal of France might carry. Can anyone I D the sword ? I hope that there is sufficient detail. Also a pic of the dustjacket, this type of action must have been terrifying for the participants, unless the excitement blotted out the fear.
Regards to all,
Brian

[celtan]

The swords are different, one has a marked curvature to its blade, the others are Stirrup guard Hussard swords of the garden variety.

Here are some with similar features. (Click on the thumbs if you want bigger pics).

Best

Manuel

[Jim McDougall]

Fascinating topic, and great post Brian! Why the particular interest in Davout? It would be interesting to know more on this Marshal, and indeed on the type of swords he might have used.

I think Manuel has posted well placed comments and illustrations in the type sabres common to high ranking officers in this period. After campaigns in Egypt, many of the French, and for that matter British, officers sought to have sabres of the type seen in use by the Mamluk warriors. The sabre itself was of course well established with light cavalry by this period, and these neoclassic style motifs were common, as well as certain elements of the Islamic sabres. The elliptical shaped langets are characteristically French.

I think that describing the surreal events in combat and warfare typically elude the limitations of most vocabularies, and the word fear falls incredibly out of dimension. I think that those individuals involved in such events as these battles would likely experience every emotion, and incomprehensible image psychologically possible to the human mind.
One of the best books I have found with great perspective is "The Face of Battle" by the late John Keegan, whose description of such perceptions in combat at Waterloo and others is remarkable.

All best regards,
Jim

[Iliad]

Hi Jim, the reason I used Davout as subject was that his was the only pic in the book that showed a sword in reasonable detail!
Here are some questions:
1.Did cavalry at that time wear any sort of armour? Helmets I suppose, maybe cuirasses?
2.Did cavalry at that time carry muskets/rifles/pistols as well as swords? Or were they armed with swords only? Lances? 3.Infantry were certainly armed with muskets/rifles and bayonets, but did they carry swords as well or did only infantry officers carry swords?
4.If cavalry wore armour, was this all cavalry or only some units?
5.If cavalry carried rifles/muskets, were these carried slung over the shoulders or perhaps in a scabbard attached to the saddle?
6.Were pistols carried as a matter of course by all combatants or only officers?
7.Please define "dragoon".....is this a branch of cavalry?

Best regards,
Brian

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Iliad

Hi Jim, the reason I used Davout as subject was that his was the only pic in the book that showed a sword in reasonable detail!
Here are some questions:
1.Did cavalry at that time wear any sort of armour? Helmets I suppose, maybe cuirasses?
2.Did cavalry at that time carry muskets/rifles/pistols as well as swords? Or were they armed with swords only? Lances? 3.Infantry were certainly armed with muskets/rifles and bayonets, but did they carry swords as well or did only infantry officers carry swords?
4.If cavalry wore armour, was this all cavalry or only some units?
5.If cavalry carried rifles/muskets, were these carried slung over the shoulders or perhaps in a scabbard attached to the saddle?
6.Were pistols carried as a matter of course by all combatants or only officers?
7.Please define "dragoon".....is this a branch of cavalry?

Best regards,
Brian

Hi Brian,
That makes sense, and you have really presented some well placed questions, which I am assuming would be directed to Napoleonic forces of France. Although I do not consider myself much of a military historian, I will try to express what I understand to be the answers to some of these.

The heavy cavalry were actually termed cuirassiers, and did wear armoured breast and backplates, as well as helmets.

Cavalry typically had short carbines, pistols in buckets on the saddles and swords. Only the units of light cavalry designated as lancers had the lance, with sometimes pistols but always the sabre for the melee.
Typically infantry had muskets with bayonets, but did not carry swords. I believe in the case of French, they did carry a short sword in many cases.

Only the cuirassiers wore armour, they were considered heavy cavalry, where light cavalry was clearly intended less for shock action and more for fast moving reconaissance, attack and pursuit.
I believe the short carbines may have had a bucket, but it seems many had a sling .

The dragoon was a 17th-18th century type of heavy cavalry that was essentially a sort of mounted infantry, who often fought in foot as well as horseback. The term remained with regiments who became heavy cavalry intended for shock action in attack, much like armored divisions in modern warfare.

Pistols were not as I understand standard issue to other ranks during this period, but officers of course typically were more likely to have them.
Units considered more elite, such as lancers and cuirassiers were more likely to have a wider complement of pistols among the ranks.

As I note, Im not a military historian, but these are the impressions I have from research and discussions past, and from recollection.

Hopefully those better versed in Napoleonic history and orders of battle will add and correct as required, fascinating and most colorful period of history!

All best regards,
Jim

[Iliad]

Hi Jim, thanks for the informative reply. Since the Napoleonic wars covered the period 1895 (?) to about 1815, and cavalry wore armour, and since the American War of Independence was much earlier, one wonders if cavalry was used in the W of I and was armour used? Were lances used?
My knowledge of the W of I and the Civil War is largely based on films which may or may not be factual, but I can't recall ever seeing scenes of cavalry battles.
regards,
Brian

[Jim McDougall]

You're very welcome Brian, and it really is interesting to learn more about the wars and conflicts these weapons were used in to give us better context in which to view them. I cannot claim any particular expertise in the uniforms of cavalry in general, but the use of cuirasses seems more generally applied in Europe to heavy cavalry, or similar dragoon units. It seems that the application of some of these terms creates some confusion with semantics.

The American War of Independance, more commonly referred to as the "Revolutionary War" certainly became in many ways a paradox in the sense of defining the forces, weaponry, tactics and many other factors.
It is important to remember that prior to this 'war (1775-1783) the colonists were British subjects. Most British provincial troops were garrisoned in Boston, and there were no cavalry. Naturally there were no American forces militarily. Various irregular and militia type organizations developed as hostilities grew.

By the time of the recognized outbreak of the war, American units developed along British form and there were indeed some cavalry based primarily on light dragoon units, one of the most famous being "Light Horse Harry" Lee's, with him the ancestor of the South's most brilliant general in the later Civil War, Robert E. Lee.
Most of the equipment and uniforms were modified civilian attire at first, later various captured items after arrival of British light cavalry units, the 16th and 17th. The British cavalry officer of note, and indeed notorious, was Tarleton, and the distinct European style cavalry helmet he wore became adopted by American units as well in degree.
There were no lances for cavalry, though polearms were certainly present among dismounted British units. While American army forces were developed in accordance to European standards in degree after the arrival of the famed Prussian military leader Baron von Stueben, and of course in some imitation of familiar British drill, they became more famed for guerrilla tactics.

The cavalry, in its limited role, carried muskets and sabres.

The use of the lance in the Americas, as discussed here on other threads, is primarily confined to the arrival of the Spaniards, who used this weapon well into the 19th century in the northern frontiers of New Spain. The use of the lance was widely adopted by Comanches and other Plains tribes as well, and was probably present as a spear precontact, and its use as a lance in stabbing fashion from horseback developed from of course the introduction of the horse.
The lance would find use once again in the American Civil War, as the attempt to adopt European fashion and weaponry had become popular.
The Union cavalry sought to develop lancer units, with rather ineffective result, I believe the unit was Pennsylvania and 'Rush's Lancers'. The troopers who had already shown disdain for the use of the sabre, naturally must have seen the use of this anachronistic weapon as ridiculous. I am uncertain whether any actual use of the lance resulted in any confrontations other than the men trying to understand the use of them.

I will say that I know that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police still used the lance into recent years, and thier parade drill is breathtaking, as I recall seeing some years ago.

Hope this helps, all the best,
Jim

[celtan]

Hi Jim,

Remember the cavalry engagement between Dux Lauzun's French Legion and Tarleton at the Battle Of The Hook (Gloucester, VA), just prior to Yorktown

Best

M