Small Philippine Knife

Robert · 16th November 2010, 06:26 AM

Hello everyone, Here is a small bolo/knife that I just won on e-pray with a very strange blade shape. It (the blade) is of a design that I have never seen before on any edged weapon from Luzon or anywhere else for that matter. This knife is only about 10-1/2 inches long but looks to have a very well made blade that definitely looks like it was meant for mayhem. Age is something I'm not sure about at all on this piece and I wish that it would have come with a scabbard as that could have helped in dating it. The carving on the hilt looks to be of a better quality than most WWII and later pieces that I've seen (so far) but it still could be from that time frame. The grip being carved in the shape of a clenched fist could also point to this knife being of an earlier manufacture. As I do not have this in my possession yet the pictures below are from the auction. Any help and comments on this would be greatly appreciated.

Robert

Ferguson · 16th November 2010, 09:40 AM

Good morning Robert.
I bid a small amount on that one too. Glad you got it. I was intrigued by the blade shape as well. Nothing I have ever seen before. Not too aesthetically pleasing to the eye, but looks sturdy and not very "touristy". The hilt is wonderfully carved and was what I was drawn too. I can't wait to hear the experts opinion on this one. Congrats!
Steve

Robert · 16th November 2010, 01:49 PM

Good morning Steve, and thank you. Just like you the hilt is what first attracted me to it also, but the more I looked at it the more interesting and intriguing (it is rather ugly isn't it) the blade became. What makes me think that is was not made for the tourist market is in fact the strange shape of the blade. While being "Not too aesthetically pleasing to the eye" in trained hands it could be very effective and deadly in a fight with its gut hook style design. I too can't wait to hear the experts opinions on this.

Robert

Ron Anderson · 16th November 2010, 11:12 PM

In my expert opinion, it's a knife with a nice carved handle and a funny shaped blade.

It would go very nicely in my own collection.

migueldiaz · 17th November 2010, 12:10 AM

Robert, congrats for another great piece to your Luzon collection!

This is the first time I've also seen such blade shape. I drew a line along the top of the blade (pic attached). My speculation thus is that the indentation on the blade's spine is a latter addition by way of a subtraction

As to why one would do that, I can only continue to speculate.

In any case, it's a great blade. And its unique shape only adds mystique to it.

PS - If I were you, I'd just invent a story

-- said Katipunan bolo was dented by a bullet during a bolo rush, and so the owner being a vain person carved out the damaged portion, and was pleasantly surprised when a sinister-looking blade came out. What would be your version?

Robert · 18th November 2010, 02:30 AM

Hello Migueldiaz, Sorry that it has taken me so long to reply to your comments.
The blade could very well have been altered from its original shape as you have pointed out. I just hope that when it arrives that there is some form of evidence (poorer finish to the blade surface in that area) that could show whether it was tampered with or not. My main concern is what time period to assign this knife to. Is it late 1890s to early 1900s or mid 1900s? I have seen this style of grip used on early and late pieces but all of the later ones did not have quality of carving that this one has and most were fitted with aluminum hardware. As far as a good story for this being the shape it is, I really cannot improve on the one that you have already posted. I hope you don't mind if I use it.

Robert

Battara · 18th November 2010, 02:50 AM

An interesting piece. Too bad it is missing the rest of the brass fittings.....

Robert · 18th November 2010, 03:13 AM

Yes Jose, it is a shame that there are so many pieces of brass missing from the hilt.

I am hoping to replace them after it arrives to help restore its appearance.

Robert

migueldiaz · 18th November 2010, 05:45 AM

Hi Robert. Sure you can use my version

Please let us know later how the indentation's surface looks like vs. the rest of the spine.

On dating, it's a bit tricky as we all know. My guess is that your bolo is 1890s to early 1900s. And it's because I have at least two of such fist bolos, and I'm almost sure that they were made during WW2 or just a little earlier before that era. Now your piece definitely looks older and better than said pieces of mine. Thus my said guess. Hope that others can give their opinion, too.

Robert · 18th November 2010, 06:04 AM

Migueldiaz, Thank you very much. As you mentioned, dating these can be VERY tricky. Every time I think I've made some progress in doing it something like this shows up. It would probably help if I would just wait for an item to actually get to my door before posting then I might have a better idea.

Hopefully I will be able to take a few better pictures of the spine and the area in discussion once it arrives. Below is one other that I have acquired that I will post in a separate thread as soon as it arrives. Thanks again for you help.

Robert

Battara · 19th November 2010, 03:55 AM

I was wondering if the piece in question was later than 1900. The quality of the carving makes me hesitate and say later (or perhaps it is the dirt, which if true, then we could reevaluate).

Yes there are versions that were done (or at least used) in WWII.

16th November 2010, 06:26 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Small Philippine Knife Hello everyone, Here is a small bolo/knife that I just won on e-pray with a very strange blade shape. It (the blade) is of a design that I have never seen before on any edged weapon from Luzon or anywhere else for that matter. This knife is only about 10-1/2 inches long but looks to have a very well made blade that definitely looks like it was meant for mayhem. Age is something I'm not sure about at all on this piece and I wish that it would have come with a scabbard as that could have helped in dating it. The carving on the hilt looks to be of a better quality than most WWII and later pieces that I've seen (so far) but it still could be from that time frame. The grip being carved in the shape of a clenched fist could also point to this knife being of an earlier manufacture. As I do not have this in my possession yet the pictures below are from the auction. Any help and comments on this would be greatly appreciated. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 16th November 2010 at 09:07 AM.

17th November 2010, 12:10 AM	#5
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Robert, congrats for another great piece to your Luzon collection! This is the first time I've also seen such blade shape. I drew a line along the top of the blade (pic attached). My speculation thus is that the indentation on the blade's spine is a latter addition by way of a subtraction As to why one would do that, I can only continue to speculate. In any case, it's a great blade. And its unique shape only adds mystique to it. PS - If I were you, I'd just invent a story -- said Katipunan bolo was dented by a bullet during a bolo rush, and so the owner being a vain person carved out the damaged portion, and was pleasantly surprised when a sinister-looking blade came out. What would be your version? Attached Images

18th November 2010, 05:45 AM	#9
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Hi Robert. Sure you can use my version Please let us know later how the indentation's surface looks like vs. the rest of the spine. On dating, it's a bit tricky as we all know. My guess is that your bolo is 1890s to early 1900s. And it's because I have at least two of such fist bolos, and I'm almost sure that they were made during WW2 or just a little earlier before that era. Now your piece definitely looks older and better than said pieces of mine. Thus my said guess. Hope that others can give their opinion, too. Last edited by migueldiaz; 18th November 2010 at 06:09 AM.

18th November 2010, 06:04 AM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Migueldiaz, Thank you very much. As you mentioned, dating these can be VERY tricky. Every time I think I've made some progress in doing it something like this shows up. It would probably help if I would just wait for an item to actually get to my door before posting then I might have a better idea. Hopefully I will be able to take a few better pictures of the spine and the area in discussion once it arrives. Below is one other that I have acquired that I will post in a separate thread as soon as it arrives. Thanks again for you help. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 18th November 2010 at 06:20 AM.

16th November 2010, 09:40 AM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Good morning Robert. I bid a small amount on that one too. Glad you got it. I was intrigued by the blade shape as well. Nothing I have ever seen before. Not too aesthetically pleasing to the eye, but looks sturdy and not very "touristy". The hilt is wonderfully carved and was what I was drawn too. I can't wait to hear the experts opinion on this one. Congrats! Steve

16th November 2010, 01:49 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Good morning Steve, and thank you. Just like you the hilt is what first attracted me to it also, but the more I looked at it the more interesting and intriguing (it is rather ugly isn't it) the blade became. What makes me think that is was not made for the tourist market is in fact the strange shape of the blade. While being "Not too aesthetically pleasing to the eye" in trained hands it could be very effective and deadly in a fight with its gut hook style design. I too can't wait to hear the experts opinions on this. Robert

16th November 2010, 11:12 PM	#4
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	In my expert opinion, it's a knife with a nice carved handle and a funny shaped blade. It would go very nicely in my own collection.

18th November 2010, 02:30 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Migueldiaz, Sorry that it has taken me so long to reply to your comments. The blade could very well have been altered from its original shape as you have pointed out. I just hope that when it arrives that there is some form of evidence (poorer finish to the blade surface in that area) that could show whether it was tampered with or not. My main concern is what time period to assign this knife to. Is it late 1890s to early 1900s or mid 1900s? I have seen this style of grip used on early and late pieces but all of the later ones did not have quality of carving that this one has and most were fitted with aluminum hardware. As far as a good story for this being the shape it is, I really cannot improve on the one that you have already posted. I hope you don't mind if I use it. Robert

18th November 2010, 02:50 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	An interesting piece. Too bad it is missing the rest of the brass fittings.....

18th November 2010, 03:13 AM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Yes Jose, it is a shame that there are so many pieces of brass missing from the hilt. I am hoping to replace them after it arrives to help restore its appearance. Robert

19th November 2010, 03:55 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I was wondering if the piece in question was later than 1900. The quality of the carving makes me hesitate and say later (or perhaps it is the dirt, which if true, then we could reevaluate). Yes there are versions that were done (or at least used) in WWII.