Benin Warriors

fernando · 25th June 2006, 03:20 PM

Hi
I have came across these beautifull images, part of an article quoting conclusions that Art expression is influenced by Peace and War.
One is a plaque, depicting a Warrior and his atendants,labelled Nigeria, Benin Culture, XVII-XVIII century, residing at the Gugenheim Museum.
The other one, in the link attached, is an Afro-Portuguese ivory salt cellar from Sierra Leone, XV-XVI Century.
According to the article, Scholars detect various Portuguese typical details all over the object, but describe the decoration on the base as being local traditionally looking fertile women and armed men.
This is my little question; the sword held by the warrior looks not the classical one, like in the Gugenheim plaque and the ones you still see out there, but more of european influence.
could this be so ?
fernando
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/..._1991.435a.htm

Tim Simmons · 25th June 2006, 05:55 PM

This is a close up of a salt that is in the British Museum. The figures are clearly Portuguese and carry European weapons. The link to the other salt, the figures are also Portuguese. It is interesting to see a soldier his wife and dog in the decorative elements. These are also often seen in European art of the time and earlier. Many church brasses often portray the same images- knight/soldier, wife and a dog at there feet or else where in the picture. As these salts are understood to have been made for Europeans, it is fascinating how these European conventions have been followed in an age at the dawn of printing in the western world except for wood cuts. This just goes to show the sophistication of the artists and must hint at an intimate relation with the Portuguese elite.

Now just for fun are the origins of the kaskara and tabouka, from the east or the west?

Tim Simmons · 26th June 2006, 10:37 PM

From the 1500s many Europeans were in trade along the west/trade coast of Africa. So there is no reason why the figures on these salts are not just Europeans. What these objects do tell is a welcome of this trade by the incumbent royalty and elite. The labelling of these items as made for one country or another is being in denial, most of all applying to the hosts.

fernando · 27th June 2006, 10:37 PM

Thank you Tim
I am enchanted with the Salt cellar of th British Museum. In this one, the characters depicted are typical Europeans, with an European outfit and Weapons. In the Cellar from the Metropolitan Museum, the Characters look basically Africans, but maybe the man has an European influence, namely the shield and the sword ... which both picked my curiosity.
As for the European guys in these artifacts being specifically Portuguese, is never an hipothesis to abandon ... not that they look like me

. I realize these questions are ideal for Scholars ... i don't even know if the term "European" was aplicable to the context. However sometimes, things are obvious, at least to experts, and there's no need to un-precise their provenance with generical origins , concealling their specific culture, for as less fashionable ( dominant ?) as it may be in present History.
Hi hope you will never hear saying that fish and ships are European

fernando

Tim Simmons · 27th June 2006, 11:23 PM

These are wonderful things. I feel sure the figures are of Europeans. Look at the ladies costume, also one has to bare in mind that the depictions are seen through another culture so some abstraction most be accepted. I have some pictures of slightly latter silver salts made in Europe, of basically similar form.

25th June 2006, 03:20 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Benin Warriors Hi I have came across these beautifull images, part of an article quoting conclusions that Art expression is influenced by Peace and War. One is a plaque, depicting a Warrior and his atendants,labelled Nigeria, Benin Culture, XVII-XVIII century, residing at the Gugenheim Museum. The other one, in the link attached, is an Afro-Portuguese ivory salt cellar from Sierra Leone, XV-XVI Century. According to the article, Scholars detect various Portuguese typical details all over the object, but describe the decoration on the base as being local traditionally looking fertile women and armed men. This is my little question; the sword held by the warrior looks not the classical one, like in the Gugenheim plaque and the ones you still see out there, but more of european influence. could this be so ? fernando http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/..._1991.435a.htm Attached Images

25th June 2006, 05:55 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Great Topic This is a close up of a salt that is in the British Museum. The figures are clearly Portuguese and carry European weapons. The link to the other salt, the figures are also Portuguese. It is interesting to see a soldier his wife and dog in the decorative elements. These are also often seen in European art of the time and earlier. Many church brasses often portray the same images- knight/soldier, wife and a dog at there feet or else where in the picture. As these salts are understood to have been made for Europeans, it is fascinating how these European conventions have been followed in an age at the dawn of printing in the western world except for wood cuts. This just goes to show the sophistication of the artists and must hint at an intimate relation with the Portuguese elite. Now just for fun are the origins of the kaskara and tabouka, from the east or the west? Attached Images

27th June 2006, 10:37 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Tim I am enchanted with the Salt cellar of th British Museum. In this one, the characters depicted are typical Europeans, with an European outfit and Weapons. In the Cellar from the Metropolitan Museum, the Characters look basically Africans, but maybe the man has an European influence, namely the shield and the sword ... which both picked my curiosity. As for the European guys in these artifacts being specifically Portuguese, is never an hipothesis to abandon ... not that they look like me . I realize these questions are ideal for Scholars ... i don't even know if the term "European" was aplicable to the context. However sometimes, things are obvious, at least to experts, and there's no need to un-precise their provenance with generical origins , concealling their specific culture, for as less fashionable ( dominant ?) as it may be in present History. Hi hope you will never hear saying that fish and ships are European fernando Last edited by fernando; 27th June 2006 at 11:23 PM.

26th June 2006, 10:37 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	From the 1500s many Europeans were in trade along the west/trade coast of Africa. So there is no reason why the figures on these salts are not just Europeans. What these objects do tell is a welcome of this trade by the incumbent royalty and elite. The labelling of these items as made for one country or another is being in denial, most of all applying to the hosts.

27th June 2006, 11:23 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	These are wonderful things. I feel sure the figures are of Europeans. Look at the ladies costume, also one has to bare in mind that the depictions are seen through another culture so some abstraction most be accepted. I have some pictures of slightly latter silver salts made in Europe, of basically similar form.