29th May 2006, 04:43 PM | #1 |
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Fijian Club?
I bought this club as an African club. Thats just what I thought it was until recently, when a dealer told me that this is a Ula. Now I'm confused. What is the consensus here?
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29th May 2006, 08:46 PM | #2 |
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I do not think it is African. Very nice. Could be from Papua?
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29th May 2006, 08:48 PM | #3 |
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This is indeed an ula from Fiji. Nice example, often these have carvings around the shaft where it meets the head. Yours looks to be a very workman like example. These are a throwing club.
[image rehosted to save other folks' bandwidth, orig. source here (scroll down): http://www.janeresture.com/oceania_ethnology/fiji.htm] |
29th May 2006, 10:24 PM | #4 |
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Sorry but this is no Ula but a stirr spoon from Kenya or Tanzania.
I have seen them many times offered on ebay as CLUB?????(with questionmarks because "club" sounds better than "spoon") |
30th May 2006, 04:28 AM | #5 | |
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30th May 2006, 05:39 AM | #6 |
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Anybody who's been thwacked by someone's kitchen spoon (or a frying pan) knows there's some overlap between kitchen implements and weapons.
Nonetheless, this isn't an ula. The one posted by Louieblades is. I don't have the reference with me, but there are three different names for the types shown by Iain (the ula is #178 on the right). The ula is a short throwing club supposedly thrown like a knife (so that it rotates end over end) and designed to hit handle first (to concentrate the force). Allegedly. There's a long argument about this on the old Vikingsword forum from around 2003. My 0.02 cents, F |
30th May 2006, 09:35 AM | #7 |
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As a kitchen implement it looks more like a lemon juicer
DrD |
30th May 2006, 01:55 PM | #8 | |
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Nice to know what these things are if they come up frequently on Ebay. |
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30th May 2006, 02:08 PM | #9 | |
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A general (and possibly stupid) question about these clubs - looking at the relatively thin shaft on some of these clubs, how hard can one swing them (assuming they hit the target) before they break? |
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30th May 2006, 02:08 PM | #10 |
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Here's the spoon I have in my collection.It was brought back 5 years ago from the Tanzania/Kenya region.
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30th May 2006, 03:55 PM | #11 |
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Hi BluErf,
I'll be interested for anyone to post measurements. Since I've been making staffs and canes for a while now, and reading about a bunch of clubs, I can give you the "it depends" answer now. Here's what it depends on, so far as I know: Most weapons of any sort typically have handles less than 2" (5 cm) in diameter, simply because very few humans have a hand that can hold something thicker in a firm grasp. This includes things like sledge hammers and mauls, which can weigh 2-4 kg (5-10 lb) and have wooden handles. Many clubs, staffs, etc. weigh between 2-5 lbs (1-2 kg, roughly), which, if you think about it, is the weight range of typical swords. I suspect that this is sort of an optimal range for weapons in general, being light enough to wield for an extended time, light enough to move dextrously, yet heavy enough to cause damage. The basic point is that clubs seem to fall in the range of weights for all weapons, including axes, hammers, swords, spears, and maces. We seldom worry about handle failure in these tools, even though the handles are seldom more than 1" thick. To give some idea about the relative strengths of woods, a yew longbow 1" wide and 1/2" thick would probably have a draw weight in the 50-100 lb range. a round "bow" that was 1" by 1" would probably have >100 lb draw weight for yew and for many woods. If you think of a club handle as a short, stiff bow, it looks like a 1-1.5" thick handle is thick enough to handle the forces its user would apply to it. Personally, I suspect that a club handle would only fail if there was a defect in the wood, due to rot, insect damage, or cutting across the grain of the wood. However, I would not recommend stress testing a century-old club, since wood does deteriorate with age... My 0.02 cents, F |
30th May 2006, 04:41 PM | #12 |
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THROWING CLUBS DON'T NEED A THICK HANDLE AS BEING THROWN DOSEN'T PUT THE STRESS ON THE HANDLE THAT HOLDING IT AND STRIKING WITH IT WOULD. THAT BEING SAID, THE ULA CLUBS FROM FIJI ARE MADE OF A VERY DENSE HARD WOOD THAT IS HEAVIER AND STRONGER THAN LIGHTER WOODS SO PROBABLY WOULDN'T BREAK IF YOU STRUCK WITH IT. THEY WERE USUALLY CARRIED STUCK THRU THE BELT GRIDLE AND SEVERAL WERE OFTEN CARRIED THEY WERE THROWN FIRSTALONG WITH SPEARS. THE WARRIORS THEN CLOSED IN FOR FIGHTING WITH LARGER CLUBS AND SPEARS. I WOULD ASSUME THEY WERE USED IN AMBUSH ATTACKS ALSO AS THAT TYPE OF HUNTING WAS VERY COMMON (THEY WERE CANNIBALS).
THE CLUB PICTURED IN THIS POST HAS A HEAD WITH BLUNT EDGED STRIKING EDGES AND THE WAY IT IS CUT WOULD REDUCE THE WEIGHT OF THE CLUB. THESE TWO FACTORS WOULD REDUCE ITS EFFECTIVENESS AS A WEAPON AND IF IT IS MADE OUT OF LIGHT SOFTER WOOD WOULD ALSO POINT TO IT BEING SOMETHING OTHER THAN A WEAPON. FORTUNATELY WE HAVE A MEMBER WHO HAS AN EXAMPLE AND THE KNOWLEGE TO GIVE US A POSITIVE ID ON THIS ONE. SO WE CONTINUE TO LEARN! |
30th May 2006, 05:41 PM | #13 |
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Do you think Martha Stewart could start a new line of kitchen implements?
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30th May 2006, 06:28 PM | #14 |
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I checked my data and the spoon is GOGO tribe from Central Tanzania.
Ad your service... |
30th May 2006, 06:57 PM | #15 |
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I dunno Ariel,
Was Martha Stewart convicted of a felony or a misdemeanor? If a felon, she really shouldn't be introducing a line of combat-ready kitchen utensils--she'd get arrested for weapons possession, for one thing. Thanks Mapico--now my question is, how does one use this "spoon?" In a noncombat situation, I mean F |
30th May 2006, 11:39 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
Stephen* |
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31st May 2006, 02:19 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
Lew |
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31st May 2006, 05:02 AM | #18 | |
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1st June 2006, 11:38 AM | #19 |
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Hi again,latest info on tupperware and other kitchenalia.......
Spoon is used to make butter....spoon pressed in a bowl a little bigger in diameter.The lobs make it possible to let through the butter while pressing. That's why the spoon smells......like out of date butter. |
2nd June 2006, 03:08 AM | #20 | |
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Got any photos of the tribes people to post? Can you recommend a book about these people so I might learn more? Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. Stephen* |
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2nd June 2006, 11:34 AM | #21 |
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Hi Stephen,
here a book I can recomment,the spoon is NOT in it but many statues,masks,stools,musical instruments,maps,etc..... Book has 520 pages,German language,cheap(I paid only 30 euros for it 10 years ago) |
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