A M1853 bayonet, yatagan sword type

katana · 1st October 2009, 01:46 PM

Hi,
acquired this British M1853 bayonet with 2 Indian Tulwars that have been kept/stored together for some time. There is a possibillity that these 3 weapons are bring backs from the Sepoy Revolt in 1857.

The bayonet is in poor condition ...but still a nice piece of history. There is a crown mark with a 20 below it .....Birmingham manufacture ? I can just make out a cross above that ....acceptance mark ?

Most of the areas where markings would have occured are badly pitted so have no other info from it.

Does any one know ....where these bayonets issued in India for the British soldiers and or some of the Indian regiments.

I also believe that this type of British bayonet is not common.

Please, any information or comments gratefully received ....thank you

Kind Regards David

.

Norman McCormick · 1st October 2009, 05:38 PM

Hi David,
I think this is the 1856 pattern infantry sword bayonet. These bayonets were adapted at various times to fit different rifles including the Snider and Martini Henry. I believe Indian detachments were kitted out with these items, including the bayonets of course, as they became obsolete/superseded by newer models introduced into the regular U.K. based British Army. Hope this is of some help.
Regards,
Norman.

katana · 1st October 2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi David,
I think this is the 1856 pattern infantry sword bayonet. These bayonets were adapted at various times to fit different rifles including the Snider and Martini Henry. P.S. The crown over 20 is the acceptance mark, two numbers indicate post 1840's one number pre 1840's.

Thanks Norman,
1853 was a 'typo' error

I believe it is an early version because the spring is held by a rivet ...later ones had a screw. Thanks also for the explaination of the markings.

Regards David

Norman McCormick · 1st October 2009, 09:59 PM

Hi David,
I gave you some 'duff' info in my last post. A crown over a letter over a number is post 1840's for swords, the 'crown' over 20 I think is the Birmingham inspection mark relating to bayonets. My apologies.
My Regards,
Norman.

katana · 6th October 2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi David,
I gave you some 'duff' info in my last post. A crown over a letter over a number is post 1840's for swords, the 'crown' over 20 I think is the Birmingham inspection mark relating to bayonets. My apologies.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,
thanks for the information ....no apology required

katana · 6th October 2009, 06:54 PM

GREAT NEWS ....well for me.

Further careful cleaning of the pommel has revealed a lightly etched '84' ....if I am correct in assuming that the regiment is marked here, it gets very interesting...it would mean its the 84th.............

Indian Mutiny
The regiment travelled around the various garrisons of the British Empire for the next few years, mainly in India and Burma. It was not until 1857 that it would see action again in the Sepoy Rebellion in India. The 84th Foot had been in Burma when the rebellion of 1857-1858 broke out. The 84th Regiment were moved from Rangoon to India and detachments scattered throughout the various forts that were soon besieged and the Regiment received great acclaim for their actions during this period. General Outram wrote of the 84th:

“ A private letter is hardly a proper medium for giving expression to the strong feelings i bear to the glorious old 84th,but the feelings i do bear it are very strong, and every officer, non-commissioned officer and private of the Corps is,and ever shall be, my comrade and my friend! ”

The 84th Regiment is the only regiment ever to receive a salute from the battery at Fort William, Calcutta when they left India in 1859.The regiment was involved in the Relief of Lucknow and a detachment was in the Siege of Cawnpore while most of the regiment was part of the relief force sent to Cawnpore. After Cawnpore and Lucknow were recaptured the 84th Regiment was involved in the large scale protection of the country side under a Brigadier Douglas who, whilst surrounded wrote:

“ I did not think of the smallness of my force opposed to three separate bodies, each doubling it, when i remembered it was the 84th i had with me ”

Victoria Crosses
The 84th Foot had six Victoria Crosses awarded to men serving in its ranks all won during the Indian Mutiny :

Abraham Boulger
Joel Holmes
George Lambert
John Sinnott
Augustus Anson
Patrick Mylott

Perhaps the bayonet and 2 Tulwars are Sepoy Mutiny pieces ....afterall

Regards David

katana · 6th October 2009, 07:16 PM

Having searched for more info on the 84th ....I found an image of a uniform button dated 1855-1881 .....the style of the numerals are the same as the bayonet...although the etched '4' on the pommel is slightly more 'rubbed' than the '8', enough is visible to see they are identical

Its always exciting to have a piece of history....no matter how rusty...in your hands

Regards David

1st October 2009, 01:46 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	A M1853 bayonet, yatagan sword type Hi, acquired this British M1853 bayonet with 2 Indian Tulwars that have been kept/stored together for some time. There is a possibillity that these 3 weapons are bring backs from the Sepoy Revolt in 1857. The bayonet is in poor condition ...but still a nice piece of history. There is a crown mark with a 20 below it .....Birmingham manufacture ? I can just make out a cross above that ....acceptance mark ? Most of the areas where markings would have occured are badly pitted so have no other info from it. Does any one know ....where these bayonets issued in India for the British soldiers and or some of the Indian regiments. I also believe that this type of British bayonet is not common. Please, any information or comments gratefully received ....thank you Kind Regards David . Attached Images

1st October 2009, 05:38 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi David, I think this is the 1856 pattern infantry sword bayonet. These bayonets were adapted at various times to fit different rifles including the Snider and Martini Henry. I believe Indian detachments were kitted out with these items, including the bayonets of course, as they became obsolete/superseded by newer models introduced into the regular U.K. based British Army. Hope this is of some help. Regards, Norman. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 1st October 2009 at 09:51 PM.

6th October 2009, 07:16 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Having searched for more info on the 84th ....I found an image of a uniform button dated 1855-1881 .....the style of the numerals are the same as the bayonet...although the etched '4' on the pommel is slightly more 'rubbed' than the '8', enough is visible to see they are identical Its always exciting to have a piece of history....no matter how rusty...in your hands Regards David Attached Images

1st October 2009, 09:59 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi David, I gave you some 'duff' info in my last post. A crown over a letter over a number is post 1840's for swords, the 'crown' over 20 I think is the Birmingham inspection mark relating to bayonets. My apologies. My Regards, Norman.

6th October 2009, 06:54 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	GREAT NEWS ....well for me. Further careful cleaning of the pommel has revealed a lightly etched '84' ....if I am correct in assuming that the regiment is marked here, it gets very interesting...it would mean its the 84th............. Indian Mutiny The regiment travelled around the various garrisons of the British Empire for the next few years, mainly in India and Burma. It was not until 1857 that it would see action again in the Sepoy Rebellion in India. The 84th Foot had been in Burma when the rebellion of 1857-1858 broke out. The 84th Regiment were moved from Rangoon to India and detachments scattered throughout the various forts that were soon besieged and the Regiment received great acclaim for their actions during this period. General Outram wrote of the 84th: “ A private letter is hardly a proper medium for giving expression to the strong feelings i bear to the glorious old 84th,but the feelings i do bear it are very strong, and every officer, non-commissioned officer and private of the Corps is,and ever shall be, my comrade and my friend! ” The 84th Regiment is the only regiment ever to receive a salute from the battery at Fort William, Calcutta when they left India in 1859.The regiment was involved in the Relief of Lucknow and a detachment was in the Siege of Cawnpore while most of the regiment was part of the relief force sent to Cawnpore. After Cawnpore and Lucknow were recaptured the 84th Regiment was involved in the large scale protection of the country side under a Brigadier Douglas who, whilst surrounded wrote: “ I did not think of the smallness of my force opposed to three separate bodies, each doubling it, when i remembered it was the 84th i had with me ” Victoria Crosses The 84th Foot had six Victoria Crosses awarded to men serving in its ranks all won during the Indian Mutiny : Abraham Boulger Joel Holmes George Lambert John Sinnott Augustus Anson Patrick Mylott Perhaps the bayonet and 2 Tulwars are Sepoy Mutiny pieces ....afterall Regards David