A Neapolitan miquelet pistol

[Oliver Pinchot]

This pistol just came to light, wanted to share it with the forum.
Larger than most I've seen at 33 cm long. Approximately 80 cal.
The engraving is fine, and the motifs are very unusual. Dated 1798 on the lockplate. Ramrod appears to be replaced.

Interested in thoughts about what inspired the decoration of the mounts? I will reserve my own opinions pending member responses.

[Oliver Pinchot]

The marks are inlaid silver and brass

[Fernando K]

Hello

Indeed, it is a pistol produced in Naples, in the style and decoration of Ripoll's "ball" pistols. Let us remember that at that time Spain dominated southern Italy. The fleur de lis punches and the Madrid cross and the punch with the horse are intended to imitate the Spanish punches. I do not find any relationship between the sculpted figures, only that it is more elaborate than what Spanish weapons usually have

Affectionately

[Peter Andeweg]

A very interesting piece. I was thinking of Spain with the typical Miquelet lock. The decoration reminds me of the Spanish colonies, such as native inhabitants from the Americas.
Similar figures can be seen on Tobacco jars from this period and before. The rocaille decoration relates to the fashion of the mid to late 18th century.

Great find!

[Oliver Pinchot]

Hi Peter, are you able to upload images of any of those tobacco jars? It would be interesting to compare, thanks.

[corrado26]

As a help to compare here are photos of a genuine Naples made pistol from the Real Fabbrica di Napoli. I think the pistol in question was made either in Spain or in America

[Peter Andeweg]

Here is a tobacco jar made in Delft, 18th century, with decoration inspired from the colonies, note the 'Indian' , original inhabitant of the Americas, and the VOC monogram on the right of the jar.
photo courtesy, Rob Michiels auctions - 2016

[Oliver Pinchot]

Thanks, Fernando K, Udo and Peter.
I have been unable to find other metal work
with such motifs. What could be the connection
between the two, European heraldic and
New World indigenes?

[Fernando K]

Hello

Question for Conrrado. The little hole that can be seen behind the bowl is for a "faithful", missing in this case and what is the method to fix the flange to the plate.
Thank you

Affectionately

[corrado26]

I do not understand what you mean with a "Faithful". I added photos which show the hole in which I stuck a screwdriver to show that the hole is going through. I do not know for which purpose this has been made and can see no sense in it, sorry.

[Fernando K]

Hello, Corrado

The "faithful" was a method used by the Spanish to fix cylindrical pieces, instead of proceeding to thread them, particularly with the frizen screw, so that it would not move, turn or come out. LAVIN mentions them in his work

Thanks for the photo and for replying.

Affectionately

[Fernando K]

HELLO

I attach a photograph. The Ottoman keys continued to use this method. Here you can see that the piece that acts as a screw has been removed from the frizzen and the faithful one, slightly conical, has also been removed so that it sits and does not move.

affectionately

[Philip]

Oh, what is described in the thread as a "faithful" is what is known in Spanish as a fiel which is a pin drilled transversely through a screw and its threaded hold to keep it from backing out or loosening with use. James D Lavin in his A History of Spanish Firearms pp 164-65 explains this quite well, it was a common feature of early locks (before the mid-17th cent) probably because screw-threading techniques were in that era not as precise as later on. By the 1640s, only the frizzen and cock pivot screws still used them. According to sources cited by Dr Lavin, the frizzen pivot screw was the last application for the fiel and this feature generally disappeared by the 18th century.

I have handled numerous examples of miquelet locks in my collection and restoration practice and find all this to be the case.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Peter Andeweg

A very interesting piece. I was thinking of Spain with the typical Miquelet lock. The decoration reminds me of the Spanish colonies, such as native inhabitants from the Americas.
Similar figures can be seen on Tobacco jars from this period and before. The rocaille decoration relates to the fashion of the mid to late 18th century.

Great find!

I agree. The motifs strongly point to possible production in Latin America, if so this would be an historically and ethnographically more significant object than the typical Neapolitan pistol in Ripollesque stye.

[Fernando K]

HELLO EVERYONE
The fact that the appendix of the rake flange has a retaining pin is because the appendix is a cylindrical piece, which cannot be threaded, because the whole assembly cannot be rotated, because it interfered when rotating with the bowl (priming pan) The method of a round appendage is one of those used to fix the flange of the bowl to the platen, and that must be introduced transversally to its surface. Thus, the rake flange is fixed, in addition to the rake screw, by the cylindrical piece that is inserted into the plate and is fixed by the retaining pin.

sorry for the translator

Affectionately
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[Fernando K]

HI OLIVER

I do not find any relationship with the figures A lion appears, an unknown animal in America. The human figure is idealized (is it a man, a woman, an Indian?) They are only decorative figures. Besides, there are few copies produced in America

Affectionately

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

HI OLIVER

I do not find any relationship with the figures A lion appears, an unknown animal in America. The human figure is idealized (is it a man, a woman, an Indian?) They are only decorative figures. Besides, there are few copies produced in America

Affectionately

Lions may not be part of the native fauna of the Americas, but would have certainly been known to the human inhabitants of these continents after the arrival of Europeans via trans-Atlantic cultural influences -- such as art, literary references, and Biblical imagery.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

HELLO EVERYONE
The fact that the appendix of the rake flange has a retaining pin is because the appendix is a cylindrical piece, which cannot be threaded, because the whole assembly cannot be rotated, because it interfered when rotating with the bowl (priming pan) The method of a round appendage is one of those used to fix the flange of the bowl to the platen, and that must be introduced transversally to its surface. Thus, the rake flange is fixed, in addition to the rake screw, by the cylindrical piece that is inserted into the plate and is fixed by the retaining pin.

sorry for the translator

Affectionately
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I'm trying to decipher the translation of your post, but it seems that the translation software is not quite up to handling the specialized terminology of a subject that has been out of public conscience for a couple of centuries. Could you provide images of the specific parts of the lock that you are referring to, perhaps with arrows and notes indicating precisely what you are trying to explain? Labelling the parts in Spanish would be much more useful than using the inexact Engish translations which can be quite confusing.

[Fernando K]

HELLO EVERYONE

In post number 12, a photograph of the front end of an ottoman lock has been uploaded, with its cylindrical piece that acts as a pivot for the frizzen that would go in the perforation and the perforation for the retaining pin (missing) that crosses the other perforation. However, and for further clarification, I upload another photograph of the ottoman lock, where you can see the perforations for the cylindrical piece that serves as the pivot of the frizzen and for the retaining pin.

Anyone who knows the Spanish miquelete will know that the bridle of priming pan is false and the retention method in its place, among others, is a cylindrical appendage, which enters the plate, and that in the case of the weapon raised by Pichot it has a hole for retention by means of a retaining pin
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[Fernando K]

Sorry. It's not Pichot, it's Corrado

[Philip]

Originally Posted by corrado26

I added photos which show the hole in which I stuck a screwdriver to show that the hole is going through. I do not know for which purpose this has been made and can see no sense in it, sorry.

This hole looks like it held a crosspin that retains the tenon that projects from the rear portion of the priming pan cover plate / bridle. This tenon fits into a corresponding hole or mortise in the lockplate, and the perpendicular crosspin helps anchor it. As Fernando correctly points out, this tenon cannot be a threaded bolt because there is no way that the plate/bridle can be rotated into place under the pan.

Whether this pin, for this particular application, can be regarded as a fiel in light of the rather precise definition of same in old texts is a subject for another post. However, at this point we can be clear that the mounting of the priming pan bridle / cover plate is a separate issue from the frizzen pivot (mounted just ahead of the pan).

[Philip]

Several posts previously I quoted author James Lavin on the use of the fiel which Espinar's 1644 treatise Arte de ballestería y montería
precisely describes this component as "similar to headless nails" and the screw which accepts them is "drilled through its very threads". The text clearly states the use of threaded screws which form the pivot points of both cock and frizzen. So we can argue whether or not the above-discussed crosspin holding a tenon in its mortis is a fiel according to this definition, it may be more significant to a mechanical engineer than to most arms collectors and historians.

Fernando has pointed out an example of an Ottoman lock in which the frizzen pivot is also unthreaded and locked in place by a crosspin.

This has inspired me to look through the miquelets in my collection to see how the frizzen pivots and the means of securing the pivot in place. It turns out that on all these (European, not Oriental manufacture) locks, the frizzen pivots on a screw. All of them employ threaded screws on which the frizzen rotates.
1. Very early patilla lock of somewhat primitive design, Brescia, first half 17th cent.: It has a long bridge-like bridle connecting pan and cock pivot (as on Ottoman/Balkan locks of later date), neither pivot screws are held by fieles.
2. Early Ripoll pistol ca. 1645, ex-Lavin, publ in his book, figs 115A and 117A, the frizzen screw is held by a fiel.
3. Patilla lock made by an Austrian or German smith (for a remounted war-trophy Ottoman damascus barrel, late 17th cent.) no fiel retaining either cock or frizzen screw.
4. Neapolitan lock by Scarpati of the Fab Reale di N, same remarks as 3
5. Shotgun by court gunsmith de Zegarra, 1770s, same remarks as 3
6. ditto, by Fernando Murúa of Eibar, ca 1790-1810, same remarks as 3
7. Eibar lock on pistol by José Aguirre, beginning 19th cent., same remarks as 3

What would be interesting if our friend Rick Russell (rickystl) would chime in with a comparable survey of this feature on the considerable numbers of Ottoman, Balkan, and North African locks in his collection. Also as an avid shooter of refurbished old guns of these cultures, he might also have remarks about the functional necessity of these retaining pins, if they appear in significant number on locks thought to post-date ca 1700, when Lavin states that their use pretty much ceased in Spain.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

HI OLIVER

I do not find any relationship with the figures A lion appears, an unknown animal in America.

And what do you think about a cat called "Puma" or "Silverlion" or maybe a Jaguar? Both cats are well known in North-and Latin America.

[Fernando K]

Hello. Corrado
The American "puma" and "jaguar" have no mane, like the animal depicted on Oliver Pichot's gun
Affectionately

[David R]

To me, this looks like a Spanish colonial piece rather than made in Spain or Italy, the decorative work is just that little bit crude or naive.

Spain's colonies were very widespread, including North Africa as well as the Americas, the Philippines and even in some parts of Asia.

I am discounting the Spanish Netherlands here because they had their own style, and no lack of extremely skilled craftsmen.