IM BAAAACK! and mystery knife!

Aurangzeb · 11th July 2009, 03:33 AM

Hello all!

Im back after an unwantedly long absence. But now im back and intend to stay around this time! Ok, this lil guys been lurking in my collection for a while and I still have no clue what it is. It reminds me of a Balkan/Bosnian Bichaq a bit....especially the furrule. But then looking more the blade is more curved than any other bichaq I've seen. Not to mention the stag handle being odd to say the least.....strangely the handle is comfortable with several of the bumps fitting nicely between the fingers. The stag reminds me of various german knives....but the blade dont strike me as very German. Hopefully someone will know what i have because i defiantly dont!

Mark (Aurangzeb)

Rick · 11th July 2009, 03:52 AM

Hi Mark,
Welcome back !

Looks almost like a Bird or Trout knife to me ..

About the right size .

M ELEY · 11th July 2009, 03:53 AM

Hmmm...looks like it could be part of a hunting trouse perhaps. It has the same side-item style, size, construction with antler, etc.

Perhaps that's why you thought Germanic at first? You are right about the blade resembling a bichaq/kard. Did Eastern Europe have trouses as well? Very nice piece. Is the blade silvered?

Aurangzeb · 11th July 2009, 04:16 AM

Hi M Eley,

I think the blade is chromed....it certainly is an odd bugger isnt it lol. I forgot to mention the chromed blade somehow

I wonder if it is somehkind of eastern european hunting knife....

P.S. the blade is single edged with a false edge on the spine

Rick · 11th July 2009, 04:26 AM

IMO, chrome = non-functional .

M ELEY · 11th July 2009, 05:34 AM

Chrome=nonfunctional. Depends on period. I would agree that modern-day items with chroming are typically tourist, low-grade items, but the process of nickoling, which resembles chroming, has been around since the 1860's. I've had a Scottish baskethilt from the Crimean War with said nickoling on it.
Rick, I agree that it does have the cutting edge in a place that would make it a good gutting knife, like your trout piece. This also makes me wonder if it is an article from a trouse. The last time we had this debate, the ol' cheese/ fruit knife discussion came about, but i feel with the stag hilt and blade shape, it could be a working blade for the hunt.

Mark E

Aurangzeb · 11th July 2009, 05:56 AM

hi all,
Is there a way to tell if it was nickled or chromed? I dont think its to recent....my personal feeling is 1950's at the latest. Its a solid piece. I wonder if it could be part of one of those german hunting sword sets.....i have seen some of those with accomanying knives. the mystery deepens eh? lol THE GAMES AFOOT!

Mark...

p.s i dont know if it helps but the furrel seems to be german silver. it doesnt have that blueish hue of real silver. and the blade is razor sharp.

pps. take a look at the last 2 pieces on the page..... http://www.germaniainternational.com/hunting4.html i think this is the trouse of which you speak? and the handle on the last one is much like mine

M ELEY · 11th July 2009, 10:23 AM

Exactly the type of which I speak. Good find! Now if I had searched for that, I would have come up empty-handed. The second from the bottom is the type of which I speak. Hirshfanger and hunting implements were such an important part of Germanic culture as you see. Your piece could still be chromed in the modern era. It is hard to tell from pics. If the whole piece were silvered, I'd guess early 20th, but you never know. Still, very well made. I'm hoping to add a stag-hilted hanger like the last one on the site you posted to my collection some day. Many of these early examples went to sea due to their compact nature and robust form.(i.e. Think "pirate"

)

Aurangzeb · 11th July 2009, 04:14 PM

Hi M Eley,

So this is a German hunting knife afterall. I wonder if this would fall in the Jagdmesser catagory then? Looking at it would seem to make a good skinning knife. I like German hunting implemants and wanted a Hirschfanger as well but the price always kept me at arms length

What do you think of the clam that the uncomfortable stag handle was a Hessian innovation, I wonder if that could point to this knife having a Hessianl Origen......

M ELEY · 12th July 2009, 03:37 AM

Actually, the Germans didn't have exclusive rights to the "rough-hewn stag hilt look" on swords and hangers. I have seen similar hilts on many Scottish pieces, as well as some colonial American. It was a matter of taste and perhaps aided in allowing a good grip for the hunter while butchering (that could get the knife quite gory and slippery). Your knife's hilt does appear to have some aging to it, but the blade has a more modern appearance. Hard to tell. I'd guess at oldest, it dates to late 19th century, well after the period where the Germans were referred to as Hessians. I'm with you on wanting a nice old hanger. Perhaps some day-

Mark

Aurangzeb · 12th July 2009, 03:49 AM

Hi M Eley,

thanks for all of your help with this knife. Im really very foind of it. I persoanlly think its 1920's or 30's......thats just my guess based on the chroming/nickeling/silvering. Unfortunatly in the pics the light black stains/pittin(not sure what to call it) dont show up

....Yay! another German hunting knife for my collection......i have a little lederhosenmesser

Mark....

11th July 2009, 03:33 AM	#1
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	IM BAAAACK! and mystery knife! Hello all! Im back after an unwantedly long absence. But now im back and intend to stay around this time! Ok, this lil guys been lurking in my collection for a while and I still have no clue what it is. It reminds me of a Balkan/Bosnian Bichaq a bit....especially the furrule. But then looking more the blade is more curved than any other bichaq I've seen. Not to mention the stag handle being odd to say the least.....strangely the handle is comfortable with several of the bumps fitting nicely between the fingers. The stag reminds me of various german knives....but the blade dont strike me as very German. Hopefully someone will know what i have because i defiantly dont! Mark (Aurangzeb) Attached Images

11th July 2009, 03:52 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Mark, Welcome back ! Looks almost like a Bird or Trout knife to me .. About the right size . Attached Images

11th July 2009, 05:56 AM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	hi all, Is there a way to tell if it was nickled or chromed? I dont think its to recent....my personal feeling is 1950's at the latest. Its a solid piece. I wonder if it could be part of one of those german hunting sword sets.....i have seen some of those with accomanying knives. the mystery deepens eh? lol THE GAMES AFOOT! Mark... p.s i dont know if it helps but the furrel seems to be german silver. it doesnt have that blueish hue of real silver. and the blade is razor sharp. pps. take a look at the last 2 pieces on the page..... http://www.germaniainternational.com/hunting4.html i think this is the trouse of which you speak? and the handle on the last one is much like mine Last edited by Aurangzeb; 11th July 2009 at 06:47 AM.

11th July 2009, 03:53 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Hmmm...looks like it could be part of a hunting trouse perhaps. It has the same side-item style, size, construction with antler, etc. Perhaps that's why you thought Germanic at first? You are right about the blade resembling a bichaq/kard. Did Eastern Europe have trouses as well? Very nice piece. Is the blade silvered?

11th July 2009, 04:16 AM	#4
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi M Eley, I think the blade is chromed....it certainly is an odd bugger isnt it lol. I forgot to mention the chromed blade somehow I wonder if it is somehkind of eastern european hunting knife.... P.S. the blade is single edged with a false edge on the spine

11th July 2009, 04:26 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	IMO, chrome = non-functional .

11th July 2009, 05:34 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Chrome=nonfunctional. Depends on period. I would agree that modern-day items with chroming are typically tourist, low-grade items, but the process of nickoling, which resembles chroming, has been around since the 1860's. I've had a Scottish baskethilt from the Crimean War with said nickoling on it. Rick, I agree that it does have the cutting edge in a place that would make it a good gutting knife, like your trout piece. This also makes me wonder if it is an article from a trouse. The last time we had this debate, the ol' cheese/ fruit knife discussion came about, but i feel with the stag hilt and blade shape, it could be a working blade for the hunt. Mark E

11th July 2009, 10:23 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Exactly the type of which I speak. Good find! Now if I had searched for that, I would have come up empty-handed. The second from the bottom is the type of which I speak. Hirshfanger and hunting implements were such an important part of Germanic culture as you see. Your piece could still be chromed in the modern era. It is hard to tell from pics. If the whole piece were silvered, I'd guess early 20th, but you never know. Still, very well made. I'm hoping to add a stag-hilted hanger like the last one on the site you posted to my collection some day. Many of these early examples went to sea due to their compact nature and robust form.(i.e. Think "pirate" )

11th July 2009, 04:14 PM	#9
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi M Eley, So this is a German hunting knife afterall. I wonder if this would fall in the Jagdmesser catagory then? Looking at it would seem to make a good skinning knife. I like German hunting implemants and wanted a Hirschfanger as well but the price always kept me at arms length What do you think of the clam that the uncomfortable stag handle was a Hessian innovation, I wonder if that could point to this knife having a Hessianl Origen......

12th July 2009, 03:37 AM	#10
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Actually, the Germans didn't have exclusive rights to the "rough-hewn stag hilt look" on swords and hangers. I have seen similar hilts on many Scottish pieces, as well as some colonial American. It was a matter of taste and perhaps aided in allowing a good grip for the hunter while butchering (that could get the knife quite gory and slippery). Your knife's hilt does appear to have some aging to it, but the blade has a more modern appearance. Hard to tell. I'd guess at oldest, it dates to late 19th century, well after the period where the Germans were referred to as Hessians. I'm with you on wanting a nice old hanger. Perhaps some day- Mark

12th July 2009, 03:49 AM	#11
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi M Eley, thanks for all of your help with this knife. Im really very foind of it. I persoanlly think its 1920's or 30's......thats just my guess based on the chroming/nickeling/silvering. Unfortunatly in the pics the light black stains/pittin(not sure what to call it) dont show up ....Yay! another German hunting knife for my collection......i have a little lederhosenmesser Mark....