Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th October 2009, 03:07 PM   #1
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default An Extremely Rare 17th Century German Military Match Hider (Match Box)

This is the only known detached late 16th or early 17th century match hider, except for a handful of them retained on some of the bandoliers of the Guard of the Electors of Saxony.

It is made of thin tinned and brazed iron with a cap and four rings for a suspension cord. In its lower section and in the bottom there are a few irregular holes for ventilation and a thick piece of hemp matchcord is preserved inside. The overall length of the piece is 17 cm.

Match hiders are recorded to have been carried by only one musketeer out of a group of 15 or 20 in order to enable the others to light their matches in case of emergency. As smoldering match would not only produce a visible glow and smoke but a traitorous smell as well, match hiders are believed to have been used especially on night marches.

The item in discussion was sold Hermann Historica, Munich, on October 5, 2009, at a hammer price of 1,700 euro.

In addition to images of this rarissimum, I enclose a few photos of similar match hiders on late 16th century Saxon bandoliers that I photographed in museums over decades.

Best,
Michael
Attached Images
       

Last edited by Matchlock; 7th October 2009 at 04:18 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2009, 04:33 PM   #2
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default Match Containers on Late 16th Century Saxon Bandoliers

... in the Bavarian Army Museum Ingolstadt, the Imperial Castle Nuremberg, and the Royal Armouries Leeds.

Michael
Attached Images
            
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2009, 11:04 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,945
Default

These are incredibly interesting Michael! Yet another element of the many items and accoutrements that were required in the use of the weapons themselves. While of course the weapons are typically presented in displays in collections etc. it is interesting to see these items along with them.

I honestly had never thought of the burning match that of course would have been used to ignite these matchlock guns. Actually I had not thought much on nightime activity such as combat or marching, assuming that most commonly such things would take place during some degree of daylight.

Obviously my perception of military history of these times is somewhat impaired especially when it comes to firearms. It seems though that Rembrandt's famed painting, commonly referred to as "The Night Watch" was actually a daylight rendering, but darkened over time as the paint became imbued with the usual contaminants and darkened accordingly.

It would seem that carrying a lit match would certainly be a dangerous proposition, especially if it became too close to supplies of gunpowder.
The individual carrying this essential item, as noted, would likely have been not only an identifiable target, but I wonder if they would have been kept away from the main body of the force because of that and the danger element of accidental ignition.

Best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2009, 11:03 AM   #4
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
These are incredibly interesting Michael! Yet another element of the many items and accoutrements that were required in the use of the weapons themselves. While of course the weapons are typically presented in displays in collections etc. it is interesting to see these items along with them.

I honestly had never thought of the burning match that of course would have been used to ignite these matchlock guns. Actually I had not thought much on nightime activity such as combat or marching, assuming that most commonly such things would take place during some degree of daylight.

Obviously my perception of military history of these times is somewhat impaired especially when it comes to firearms. It seems though that Rembrandt's famed painting, commonly referred to as "The Night Watch" was actually a daylight rendering, but darkened over time as the paint became imbued with the usual contaminants and darkened accordingly.

It would seem that carrying a lit match would certainly be a dangerous proposition, especially if it became too close to supplies of gunpowder.
The individual carrying this essential item, as noted, would likely have been not only an identifiable target, but I wonder if they would have been kept away from the main body of the force because of that and the danger element of accidental ignition.

Best regards,
Jim

Exactly, Jim,

Especially when considering that these match hiders were carried on a bandolier together with ten or twelve other containers filled with finely granulated gun powder - and of course with inevidable remnants of powder all over the musketeer's clothes!

I am afraid you are not the only one whose imagination of warfare in olden times will become somewhat impaired (or maybe even impaled ) when studying the actual accouterments.

Best wishes,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2013, 01:42 PM   #5
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Image on top:
close-up of the cast-bronze lion heads and the top of a match hider (center of image) and a powder container, on a bandolier for a guardsman of the Leibgarde (bodyguard) of the Elector Christian I of Saxony, ca. 1590.
Detail on the extreme right:
tapering nozzle of the flask containing the priming powder.

Image from Peter Finer's site, with compliments.


Please note that the original covering consisting of rep / repp (German Rips), which is perfectly retained on the speciman in the Royal Armouries Leeds (see images in my post #2 above, plus close-up following below), is missing from the tin surface of the containers on this bandolier.
Rep is defined by Wikipedia as a fabric made of silk or wool, or of silk and wool, and having a transversely corded or ribbed surface.


Best,
Michael
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Matchlock; 14th November 2013 at 02:21 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2013, 02:29 PM   #6
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

HURRAY !!!
... He is back
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2013, 06:21 PM   #7
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Thanks a lot for hooraying like that, 'Nando,
my dear friend!!!!

I guess that's the best welcome I've ever experienced!


Best wishes as always to you and everybody out there,
Michl/Michael/Miguel/Mikhail/Michel/Michele ...

Last edited by Matchlock; 14th November 2013 at 06:39 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2013, 07:10 AM   #8
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
This is the only known detached late 16th or early 17th century match hider, except for a handful of them retained on some of the bandoliers of the Guard of the Electors of Saxony.
Thanks for showing us another rare item. The Japanese also used a similar item for the same purpose and they are also very rare, here is an example.


Hinawa-ire, container to transport a burning cord. It was designed to keep a match cord burning. It also dimmed or hid the glow at night so the enemy could not see the massed enemy matches.
Attached Images
 
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2013, 10:55 AM   #9
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

As the match was not actually kept 'burning' I prefer the term smoldering.

m

Last edited by Matchlock; 22nd November 2013 at 01:01 PM.
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2013, 01:48 PM   #10
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

I never knew the precise function of this Indian system.
A match keeper ? Something to compare with the earlier 'smolderer' addressed in this thread ?
... Obviously the match cord in this one is a mediocre solution (a shoe lace, if i remember)

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2013, 02:23 PM   #11
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi 'Nando,

If you mean the brass tube, that's just a lead for the matchcord.

Best,
m
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2013, 08:45 PM   #12
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

But what is the lower perforated tube for ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2013, 10:18 AM   #13
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

For keeping the cord smoldering at both ends, I suppose.

m
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2013, 03:33 PM   #14
Raf
Member
 
Raf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 252
Default

Joseph Furtenbach , inventor 1626.
"..that prince or general who ... will first supply my invention to all his troops will surely conquer the Turks- yeo the world, for with them his army will be invincible."
School of the art of gunnery. Augsburg 1643.
Attached Images
 
Raf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2014, 02:50 PM   #15
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

For early 16th c. arquebusier's bandeliers with small powder measures of tinned iron and brass, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...940#post167940


m
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.