Papua New Guinea Club ?

Norman McCormick · 2nd April 2015, 10:33 PM

Hi,
I believe this stone headed club to originate from Papua New Guinea and probably late 19thC early 20thC. The info on the net is rather reticent on these items. I did find one very similar example in Plymouth Museum collected by a missionary pre 1909, a selection of other items from PNG is well represented on the Plymouth Museum website. Many thanks in advance for your ideas and comments.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 3rd April 2015, 12:07 AM

Hi,
Image of club in Plymouth Museum collection.
Regards,
Norman.

Photo, Plymouth Museum Website.

VANDOO · 3rd April 2015, 06:50 AM

I WOULD AGREE ITS LIKELY FROM NEW GUINEA AND IS A VERY NICE EXAMPLE OF THE ROUND BALL SHAPED STONE HEAD FORM. IT IS UNUSUAL TO FIND CARVING ON THE SHAFT OF THESE AND OFTEN THE SHAFTS HAVE BEEN REPLACED RECENTLY FOR SALE. YOUR EXAMPLE SEEMS TO HAVE NATURAL PATINA AND SHOWS GOOD AGE. I LIKE IT A LOT BETTER THAN THE EXAMPLE FROM THE MUSEUM. WE NEED A REFERENCE POST ON THESE AS THERE ARE SEVERAL FORMS FROM FLAT DISK TO STAR SHAPED TO PINEAPPLE TO DIAMOND SHAPED FORMS AS WELL AS THE ROUND BALL FORM. THERE ARE NO DOUBT REGIONAL DIFFERENCES, PERHAPS THE DESIGN ON YOUR EXAMPLE CAN HELP PIN IT DOWN TO ONE AREA OR TRIBE. I HAVE SOME MATERIAL ON THEM BUT HAVE NOT GOTTEN AROUND TO WORKING ON IT YET.

Tim Simmons · 3rd April 2015, 08:22 AM

The fine engraved lines on the sharft of this example make me believe this example may actually be African. Here is an example from the Pittrivers Oxford. Either way I like it.

http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1937.34.45/

I found pictures I posted back in 2007 of a Sudan club that illustrates this type of engraved linear decoration. The pictures are not in good light. The wood in real life is very similar in colour and patina. I cannot take better pictures as this club is currently in an auction house. If I am correct (if got it right from the last telephone contact with said house) the club and a load of other weapon junk is being return to me as a did not like their so called tribal experts appraisal. If this is indeed how I left it, I will be able to add better pictures in a week or twos time.

Norman McCormick · 3rd April 2015, 07:20 PM

Hi Barry and Tim,
Many thanks for your replies and interest. From what I can find I'm almost 100% sure this is from P.N.G. This website should be of interest although you probably have seen it already http://www.tribalartbrokers.net/prai...-clubs-of-png/

The wooden 'fishing' spearhead 25 inches long, see attached image, came with the club.
My Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 3rd April 2015, 07:38 PM

Hi,
Head of a spear in the Plymouth Museum with two of three wooden barbed heads remaining attributed to New Guinea.
Regards,
Norman.

jaxonrice · 4th April 2015, 09:43 AM

I looked at this club in detail when it came up on auction last week. Like Tim I originally actually thought that the club may be Sudanese, but the wooden spear and the bamboo and rattan barbed spear (not shown in this thread) that came with the lot indicated that it was indeed probably from Papua New Guinea.

Tim Simmons · 4th April 2015, 05:13 PM

The fact that they were bought together does not mean that they were collected at the same time or place. They could have come from a person's eclactic collection of junk.

Norman McCormick · 4th April 2015, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The fact that they were bought together does not mean that they were collected at the same time or place. They could have come from a person's eclactic collection of junk.

True, true.

P.S. The rattan barbed spear is actually an arrow.

colin henshaw · 6th April 2015, 04:44 PM

I think this club can be attributed to Southern Sudan (perhaps Nuba), based on the following observations :-

a) PNG stone-headed clubs have the shaft protruding further from the end of the stone, usually with rattan binding to both sides. The tip of the shaft (distal end), is often split and wedged to hold the stone securely.

b) The incised carving to the shaft is very similar to that on Tim's Sudanese wooden club.

c) The shaft looks very like the reed shafts found on Sudanese/Baggara spears, (perhaps re-used from a broken spear).

For interest I am attaching an extract from the 1935 "Sudan Notes and Records" by C W Beer, about the making of such clubs by the Nuba.

Tim Simmons · 6th April 2015, 07:29 PM

Excellent, great info Colin. What a good place this forum is!

Norman McCormick · 6th April 2015, 08:31 PM

Hi,
Some stats, shaft 28 1/2 inches total length 31 inches, head diameter a little over 3 inches, head circumference 9 1/2 inches, head weight approx 20 ounces.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Plymouth Museum P.N.G. club total length 30 inches, diameter just shy of 4 inches.

Norman McCormick · 6th April 2015, 08:46 PM

Hi,
Photos attached of Sudanese Nuer club from the Pitt Rivers Museum.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. This club stats just short of 21 inches long, just over 22 ounces total weight, head diameter 3 inches.

2nd April 2015, 10:33 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Papua New Guinea Club ? Hi, I believe this stone headed club to originate from Papua New Guinea and probably late 19thC early 20thC. The info on the net is rather reticent on these items. I did find one very similar example in Plymouth Museum collected by a missionary pre 1909, a selection of other items from PNG is well represented on the Plymouth Museum website. Many thanks in advance for your ideas and comments. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

3rd April 2015, 12:07 AM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Image of club in Plymouth Museum collection. Regards, Norman. Photo, Plymouth Museum Website. Attached Images

3rd April 2015, 08:22 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The fine engraved lines on the sharft of this example make me believe this example may actually be African. Here is an example from the Pittrivers Oxford. Either way I like it. http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1937.34.45/ I found pictures I posted back in 2007 of a Sudan club that illustrates this type of engraved linear decoration. The pictures are not in good light. The wood in real life is very similar in colour and patina. I cannot take better pictures as this club is currently in an auction house. If I am correct (if got it right from the last telephone contact with said house) the club and a load of other weapon junk is being return to me as a did not like their so called tribal experts appraisal. If this is indeed how I left it, I will be able to add better pictures in a week or twos time. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 3rd April 2015 at 08:45 AM.

3rd April 2015, 07:20 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Barry and Tim, Many thanks for your replies and interest. From what I can find I'm almost 100% sure this is from P.N.G. This website should be of interest although you probably have seen it already http://www.tribalartbrokers.net/prai...-clubs-of-png/ The wooden 'fishing' spearhead 25 inches long, see attached image, came with the club. My Regards, Norman. Attached Images

3rd April 2015, 07:38 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Head of a spear in the Plymouth Museum with two of three wooden barbed heads remaining attributed to New Guinea. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

3rd April 2015, 06:50 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD AGREE ITS LIKELY FROM NEW GUINEA AND IS A VERY NICE EXAMPLE OF THE ROUND BALL SHAPED STONE HEAD FORM. IT IS UNUSUAL TO FIND CARVING ON THE SHAFT OF THESE AND OFTEN THE SHAFTS HAVE BEEN REPLACED RECENTLY FOR SALE. YOUR EXAMPLE SEEMS TO HAVE NATURAL PATINA AND SHOWS GOOD AGE. I LIKE IT A LOT BETTER THAN THE EXAMPLE FROM THE MUSEUM. WE NEED A REFERENCE POST ON THESE AS THERE ARE SEVERAL FORMS FROM FLAT DISK TO STAR SHAPED TO PINEAPPLE TO DIAMOND SHAPED FORMS AS WELL AS THE ROUND BALL FORM. THERE ARE NO DOUBT REGIONAL DIFFERENCES, PERHAPS THE DESIGN ON YOUR EXAMPLE CAN HELP PIN IT DOWN TO ONE AREA OR TRIBE. I HAVE SOME MATERIAL ON THEM BUT HAVE NOT GOTTEN AROUND TO WORKING ON IT YET.

4th April 2015, 09:43 AM	#7
jaxonrice Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 12	I looked at this club in detail when it came up on auction last week. Like Tim I originally actually thought that the club may be Sudanese, but the wooden spear and the bamboo and rattan barbed spear (not shown in this thread) that came with the lot indicated that it was indeed probably from Papua New Guinea.

4th April 2015, 05:13 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The fact that they were bought together does not mean that they were collected at the same time or place. They could have come from a person's eclactic collection of junk.

6th April 2015, 04:44 PM	#10
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	I think this club can be attributed to Southern Sudan (perhaps Nuba), based on the following observations :- a) PNG stone-headed clubs have the shaft protruding further from the end of the stone, usually with rattan binding to both sides. The tip of the shaft (distal end), is often split and wedged to hold the stone securely. b) The incised carving to the shaft is very similar to that on Tim's Sudanese wooden club. c) The shaft looks very like the reed shafts found on Sudanese/Baggara spears, (perhaps re-used from a broken spear). For interest I am attaching an extract from the 1935 "Sudan Notes and Records" by C W Beer, about the making of such clubs by the Nuba. Attached Images

6th April 2015, 07:29 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Excellent, great info Colin. What a good place this forum is!

6th April 2015, 08:31 PM	#12
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Some stats, shaft 28 1/2 inches total length 31 inches, head diameter a little over 3 inches, head circumference 9 1/2 inches, head weight approx 20 ounces. Regards, Norman. P.S. Plymouth Museum P.N.G. club total length 30 inches, diameter just shy of 4 inches. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 6th April 2015 at 08:53 PM.

6th April 2015, 08:46 PM	#13
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Photos attached of Sudanese Nuer club from the Pitt Rivers Museum. Regards, Norman. P.S. This club stats just short of 21 inches long, just over 22 ounces total weight, head diameter 3 inches. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 6th April 2015 at 09:03 PM.