Items For ID Help

Robert · 19th June 2013, 01:24 AM

Hello everyone, I just picked up these two interesting pieces and would like to hear your thoughts on them. The larger one has kind of a bangkung look about and is 20 inches in total length with a blade thickness of 1/4 inch at the hilt. The smaller one is 17 inches in total with a 7 inch blade. Unfortunately I do not have any idea about at all about what it is or where it might be from. Any and all help with these would be greatly appreciated. I've added a couple more photos, one of the parangs blade and one of the smaller ones blade.

Best,
Robert

RhysMichael · 19th June 2013, 09:31 PM

Top one could be a bankoeng but to me it has a bit of a Philippine look I could be wrong. Is the blade sharpened from one side only ( chisel ground) or from both ?
Tirri's book, Islamic Weapons Maghrib to Moghul page 424 has a weapon very similar to the top one and he calls it a Badik from Savu or Timor ( fig 301) but I question that attribution. The first weapon in his picture does look like a badik and the second may have been an editorial mistake leaving it in. Others here will know better

And the bottom to me looks like it may be a Cayul

kai · 20th June 2013, 01:18 AM

Hello Robert,

Not a Moro bangkung for sure; looks very much like a Visayan "bolo" with the common knob pommel type to me...

Regards,
Kai

RhysMichael · 20th June 2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Robert,

Not a Moro bangkung for sure; looks very much like a Visayan "bolo" with the common knob pommel type to me...

Regards,
Kai

that's what I was leaning toward Kai the knob pommel, large ferrule and what seems to be a chisel grind blade.

Robert · 20th June 2013, 07:07 PM

RhysMichael and Kai, Yes the blade is chisel ground and as you both state it does have a very traditional style of Visayan hilt. The blade shape is what I find unusual as it has more of a bangkung or parang look instead of what you would expect to see on a Visayan bolo.

RhysMichael, you say that the smaller one might be a cayul

as I cannot seem to find any reference to that name could you please elaborate? Thank you both for your help on these items.

Best,
Robert

Robert · 21st June 2013, 07:50 AM

RhysMichael, I finally found a reference to a cayul in Albert's "Traditional Weapons Of The Indonesian Archipelago" on page 39. The description does fit this odd looking piece but there is only a drawing of one example with no photo. The description reads " Cayul Java A machete, used as an agricultural tool. The cayul has a short, broad blade with a convex sharp side and a slightly concave back. Its point is rounded, its hilt quite long." Does anyone happen to have a photo of one of these items that has been identified that they could post for comparison?

Best,
Robert

RhysMichael · 21st June 2013, 05:32 PM

That is the only reference I know of for it. I do not have any photos but will look for some. It definitely looks like a farming implement to me

Robert · 21st June 2013, 07:02 PM

Yes, I totally agree that this is a farming implement. I am just trying to get a positive ID on this piece as I have never seen one like it. Thank you for your help and hopefully more photos can be found.

Best,
Robert

Robert · 23rd June 2013, 08:54 AM

These two items showed up today and the blades on both are in very good condition. The finely laminated blade on the Visayan piece (other than a few small chips in the cutting edge) seems to have possibly been re-hilted at some point as it seems much to well made for such a crude hilt. I will post more photos after I have had a chance to give it a light cleaning and possibly an etch.

The cayul

has a rather bad split in the hilt but other than that is in fair condition. The way the blade it secured into the hilt is a bit different from what I normally see. It uses a steel collar that fits around the tang and is then driven into the hilt to form a tight fit. I have only seen this style of attachment on one other piece, a Philippine bolo. I will also post better photos of the blade attachment of both the cayul and the bolo later but for the meantime here is on of the auction photos.

Best,
Robert

19th June 2013, 01:24 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Items For ID Help Hello everyone, I just picked up these two interesting pieces and would like to hear your thoughts on them. The larger one has kind of a bangkung look about and is 20 inches in total length with a blade thickness of 1/4 inch at the hilt. The smaller one is 17 inches in total with a 7 inch blade. Unfortunately I do not have any idea about at all about what it is or where it might be from. Any and all help with these would be greatly appreciated. I've added a couple more photos, one of the parangs blade and one of the smaller ones blade. Best, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert; 19th June 2013 at 08:29 AM.

19th June 2013, 09:31 PM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Top one could be a bankoeng but to me it has a bit of a Philippine look I could be wrong. Is the blade sharpened from one side only ( chisel ground) or from both ? Tirri's book, Islamic Weapons Maghrib to Moghul page 424 has a weapon very similar to the top one and he calls it a Badik from Savu or Timor ( fig 301) but I question that attribution. The first weapon in his picture does look like a badik and the second may have been an editorial mistake leaving it in. Others here will know better And the bottom to me looks like it may be a Cayul Attached Images Last edited by RhysMichael; 19th June 2013 at 10:57 PM.

23rd June 2013, 08:54 AM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	These two items showed up today and the blades on both are in very good condition. The finely laminated blade on the Visayan piece (other than a few small chips in the cutting edge) seems to have possibly been re-hilted at some point as it seems much to well made for such a crude hilt. I will post more photos after I have had a chance to give it a light cleaning and possibly an etch. The cayul has a rather bad split in the hilt but other than that is in fair condition. The way the blade it secured into the hilt is a bit different from what I normally see. It uses a steel collar that fits around the tang and is then driven into the hilt to form a tight fit. I have only seen this style of attachment on one other piece, a Philippine bolo. I will also post better photos of the blade attachment of both the cayul and the bolo later but for the meantime here is on of the auction photos. Best, Robert Attached Images

20th June 2013, 01:18 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Robert, Not a Moro bangkung for sure; looks very much like a Visayan "bolo" with the common knob pommel type to me... Regards, Kai

20th June 2013, 07:07 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	RhysMichael and Kai, Yes the blade is chisel ground and as you both state it does have a very traditional style of Visayan hilt. The blade shape is what I find unusual as it has more of a bangkung or parang look instead of what you would expect to see on a Visayan bolo. RhysMichael, you say that the smaller one might be a cayul as I cannot seem to find any reference to that name could you please elaborate? Thank you both for your help on these items. Best, Robert

21st June 2013, 07:50 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	RhysMichael, I finally found a reference to a cayul in Albert's "Traditional Weapons Of The Indonesian Archipelago" on page 39. The description does fit this odd looking piece but there is only a drawing of one example with no photo. The description reads " Cayul Java A machete, used as an agricultural tool. The cayul has a short, broad blade with a convex sharp side and a slightly concave back. Its point is rounded, its hilt quite long." Does anyone happen to have a photo of one of these items that has been identified that they could post for comparison? Best, Robert

21st June 2013, 05:32 PM	#7
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	That is the only reference I know of for it. I do not have any photos but will look for some. It definitely looks like a farming implement to me

21st June 2013, 07:02 PM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Yes, I totally agree that this is a farming implement. I am just trying to get a positive ID on this piece as I have never seen one like it. Thank you for your help and hopefully more photos can be found. Best, Robert