Moro Sword for comments!

punal · 23rd November 2005, 04:41 AM

I acquired this Moro kris sword? a few weeks ago. Can anyone tell more about this sword? provenance and age may be?

Thanks,
Punal

Battara · 23rd November 2005, 05:51 AM

HI Punal.

I'll take a stab (every pun intended

). This Moro kris according to Cato would be very old, like 1700s, and is from around Jolo Island. What is interesting is that the tang appears to have been broken in the past and therefore a new one made long ago coming up through into the ganga bottom of the blade (an old form of repair).

kai · 23rd November 2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

and is from around Jolo Island.

Hi Battara,

On what details is your assessment based (originating from the Jolo area vs. Sulu archipelago in general)?

I haven't seen such an angled hilt with 20th (or even later 19th) century pieces. Is this an obsolete construction style or just very rare? I like this quite a bit (and am partial to "small" kakatua pommels anyway). How does it handle, Punal?

Regards,
Kai

kai · 23rd November 2005, 03:12 PM

Hi Punal,

Could you please give the dimensions for this nice kalis taluseko?

You definitely want to give that blade a light acid etch to reveal the lamination and possibly other forging details. (I hope the seller didn't use power tools to "enhance" the blade!

)

Regards,
Kai

punal · 23rd November 2005, 05:03 PM

Hi there Kai,

Yes! that's the first thing I noticed when I first got it, the deep etch and there were also deep honing marks on the mid portion of the blade. It was also rust infested all over, I had to bath 'em lemon juice and used a super fine sanding paper everynight for a week just to remove the scrach marks
and thickened rust. The asang-asang was also missing, and there was atleast a 2-3mm gap between the gangya and the blade. I did a few strokes of filing just to evens it out but, I had to stop, I do gun smithing not blade restoration, I'm afraid I might cause more damage to it. I also used a polishing paste to polish the edge of the blade, for a little enhancement.

Dimensions, yes! I'm in no. cal. right now and I'm flying home tonite for Thanksgiving, I'll post it as soon as I get home.

Battara!
Thanks for the feeback on the sword!

Happy holidays guys!
Punal

nechesh · 23rd November 2005, 05:16 PM

I wonder, this sword has ron dha and greneng which is much more alike to keris blades than the Moro kris. Could this blade possible be of Malay origin?

Rick · 23rd November 2005, 05:48 PM

Sorry Nechesh ..

nechesh · 23rd November 2005, 08:13 PM

No need to be sorry Rick....unless you mean for show me that sweet kris of yours again!

Even so, the greneng on Punals example seems even more Malay than yours. Not sure if that really means anything. Then again, i'm sure that there might be someone out there (not me) who might argue a Malay origin for your example as well.

Rick · 23rd November 2005, 08:36 PM

Easier to compare greneng like this .
Punal's example would not allow for a second asang asang .
Also the greneng do not go as far down the blade .
Or is it the difference in curvature ?

nechesh · 24th November 2005, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Easier to compare greneng like this .
Punal's example would not allow for a second asang asang .
Also the greneng do not go as far down the blade .
Or is it the difference in curvature ?

Yes Rick, i am referring to the actual shapes of the ron dha not the placement.

Buwaya · 24th November 2005, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

I wonder, this sword has ron dha and greneng which is much more alike to keris blades than the Moro kris. Could this blade possible be of Malay origin?

Hello, please excuse an uninformed observer. What do the terms greneng and ron dha refer to? Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to all the American forumites.

kai · 24th November 2005, 10:53 AM

Hello Punal,

Did you remove the hilt? I'd be interested to know how the tang looks like...

Quote:

Originally Posted by punal

that's the first thing I noticed when I first got it, the deep etch and there were also deep honing marks on the mid portion of the blade.

Do you happen to have pics of the original condition?

Quote:

It was also rust infested all over, I had to bath 'em lemon juice and used a super fine sanding paper everynight for a week just to remove the scrach marks and thickened rust.

It's usually sufficient to work on the blade with plastic brushes; super-fine steel wool can help to remove rust without removing remaining metal. I use wood and stag pieces to pry away stubborn rust spots. Only after complete cleaning, I'd decide on polishing or a restoration strategy if deemed necessary at all with such an old piece.

Quote:

I also used a polishing paste to polish the edge of the blade, for a little enhancement.

I'd still go for a final etch/stain to get rid of the shiny appearance.

Regards,
Kai

nechesh · 24th November 2005, 03:49 PM

Welcome Buwaya. These terms technically apply to the Indonesian keris, not it's Moro cousin, but since these blades are so similar in form we can get away with using them. You can see them more closely compared in the last 2 photos that Rick posted. We are referring to the filed out shapes on both the main part of the blade and on the seperate piece (which is most often called the gangya on Moro kris and the gonjo or ganja on Indonesian keris). Hope that helps.

punal · 24th November 2005, 05:37 PM

Kai,

Sorry, I got home late trafic jam at the air port last night (Thanksgiving rush hour). I pictured the sword when it first arrived so I could compare the looks later on but unfortunately I was editing my sword photo files last week, I accidentally deleted a few photos thats including this sword's pics. I'll check my trash bin today, I hope I can still recover it!

As for the hilt portion, yes, I had to remove it! there were thickened rust on the rod and its causing the wooden hilt to crack. I had to re-wrap the hilt also with its original torn cloth but on the inner portion, there was some kind of cleaner cloth with some writings on it, like an anting-anting may be? the original jute string wrap deteriorated, I had to replaced it with newer hemp strings.

And Yes! I kind of dislike what i've done to the blade(enhancement) my self, I'll let Battara do the proper way, this sword is going for restoration alright.
I sending it to him next week so he can perform all the necessary treatment like etching and other stuff.

Here are the dimensions of the Kris:
Over all length: 23 1/2"
Blade alone w/ out the gangya: 18 1/2"
Width: 1 1/2"
Thickness of the blade no gangya: 1/4"
Rod: 3"
Hilt: 4 1/2"

Thanks,
Punal

23rd November 2005, 04:41 AM	#1
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	Moro Sword for comments! I acquired this Moro kris sword? a few weeks ago. Can anyone tell more about this sword? provenance and age may be? Thanks, Punal Attached Images

23rd November 2005, 05:03 PM	#5
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	Hi there Kai, Yes! that's the first thing I noticed when I first got it, the deep etch and there were also deep honing marks on the mid portion of the blade. It was also rust infested all over, I had to bath 'em lemon juice and used a super fine sanding paper everynight for a week just to remove the scrach marks and thickened rust. The asang-asang was also missing, and there was atleast a 2-3mm gap between the gangya and the blade. I did a few strokes of filing just to evens it out but, I had to stop, I do gun smithing not blade restoration, I'm afraid I might cause more damage to it. I also used a polishing paste to polish the edge of the blade, for a little enhancement. Dimensions, yes! I'm in no. cal. right now and I'm flying home tonite for Thanksgiving, I'll post it as soon as I get home. Battara! Thanks for the feeback on the sword! Happy holidays guys! Punal Last edited by punal; 23rd November 2005 at 05:42 PM.

23rd November 2005, 05:48 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	For Comparison Sorry Nechesh .. Attached Images

23rd November 2005, 08:36 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Side By Side Easier to compare greneng like this . Punal's example would not allow for a second asang asang . Also the greneng do not go as far down the blade . Or is it the difference in curvature ? Attached Images

24th November 2005, 05:37 PM	#14
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	Kris Sword Dimensions Kai, Sorry, I got home late trafic jam at the air port last night (Thanksgiving rush hour). I pictured the sword when it first arrived so I could compare the looks later on but unfortunately I was editing my sword photo files last week, I accidentally deleted a few photos thats including this sword's pics. I'll check my trash bin today, I hope I can still recover it! As for the hilt portion, yes, I had to remove it! there were thickened rust on the rod and its causing the wooden hilt to crack. I had to re-wrap the hilt also with its original torn cloth but on the inner portion, there was some kind of cleaner cloth with some writings on it, like an anting-anting may be? the original jute string wrap deteriorated, I had to replaced it with newer hemp strings. And Yes! I kind of dislike what i've done to the blade(enhancement) my self, I'll let Battara do the proper way, this sword is going for restoration alright. I sending it to him next week so he can perform all the necessary treatment like etching and other stuff. Here are the dimensions of the Kris: Over all length: 23 1/2" Blade alone w/ out the gangya: 18 1/2" Width: 1 1/2" Thickness of the blade no gangya: 1/4" Rod: 3" Hilt: 4 1/2" Thanks, Punal Attached Images

23rd November 2005, 05:51 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	HI Punal. I'll take a stab (every pun intended ). This Moro kris according to Cato would be very old, like 1700s, and is from around Jolo Island. What is interesting is that the tang appears to have been broken in the past and therefore a new one made long ago coming up through into the ganga bottom of the blade (an old form of repair).

23rd November 2005, 03:12 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hi Punal, Could you please give the dimensions for this nice kalis taluseko? You definitely want to give that blade a light acid etch to reveal the lamination and possibly other forging details. (I hope the seller didn't use power tools to "enhance" the blade! ) Regards, Kai

23rd November 2005, 05:16 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I wonder, this sword has ron dha and greneng which is much more alike to keris blades than the Moro kris. Could this blade possible be of Malay origin?

23rd November 2005, 08:13 PM	#8
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	No need to be sorry Rick....unless you mean for show me that sweet kris of yours again! Even so, the greneng on Punals example seems even more Malay than yours. Not sure if that really means anything. Then again, i'm sure that there might be someone out there (not me) who might argue a Malay origin for your example as well.

24th November 2005, 03:49 PM	#13
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Welcome Buwaya. These terms technically apply to the Indonesian keris, not it's Moro cousin, but since these blades are so similar in form we can get away with using them. You can see them more closely compared in the last 2 photos that Rick posted. We are referring to the filed out shapes on both the main part of the blade and on the seperate piece (which is most often called the gangya on Moro kris and the gonjo or ganja on Indonesian keris). Hope that helps.