Another Torador barrel.

Pukka Bundook · 22nd May 2016, 04:57 PM

Morning Gents.

Recently I acquired another torador, and would appreciate any suggestions as to age or origins.
It is not yet in hand, so only have a few limited photos.

The style of koftgari is unlike my other example, so not from the same workshop I don't think, though Possibly from Oudh still.
I do wish there were books with definite facts regarding these arms.

Barrel is I believe 55" long.

Here are the photos;

Comments welcome!

Richard.

Pukka Bundook · 22nd May 2016, 05:09 PM

For the sake of comparison, here is the other barrel, with koftgari.
The one I believe came from Oudh.........

Same workshop,........or same area with a similar ideas as to design?

I'd appreciate any suggestions!
Richard.

rickystl · 28th May 2016, 05:52 PM

Hi Richard.
WOW!! Nice barrels - both!! The silver work does in fact look like it could have come from the same workshop. I notice one barrel still retains it's pan cover (yay!) and the other appears to have intentionally been made without a cover.
The brass barrel bands in the first photo look interesting. Do you have any more pics of them close up?
Thanks, Rick.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th May 2016, 08:52 PM

I gave myself 10 minutes to drum up a few Torador suspects...with angle off shots showing the interesting parts ...

Pukka Bundook · 29th May 2016, 05:18 AM

Rick,

No more photos until they both arrive, and I purchase one near on 3 years ago! (they both should be here in hopefully a week or 3 now)

They both seem similar in layout, just the actual koftgari appears different.
The barrels from Oudh often had no pan covers that swiveled, but rather one that slotted over the pan. In fact, it was noted if an Oudh barrel had a pan -cover in the conventional meaning, as they were rather scarce.
I believe one barrel is 53" & one 55".
Bores are reported by my pal and agent as V. good!

Ibrahiim,
Thank you for the extra images;
Some toradors are indeed a work of art. :-)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th May 2016, 07:58 PM

I had never heard of the term of plank stock for these guns but it is very fitting. see http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/66/lid/3268 for a typical plankstock Indian Gun... Torador. Thought to add some Indian gunpowder flasks for interest.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th May 2016, 10:11 PM

I wondered how armouries stored these weapons... see http://wootz.co/early-19th-century-p...-fort-armoury/
I add a few more library pictures..Chart from Stone ...etc Indian soldiers needed to be able to shoot from a variety of positions either from Forts or horse back and occasionally camel.

Regarding the weird bi pod weapon...probably quite an accurate gun...This weapon was presented to Major Shaw of the Indian Army, whilst he was commanding a detachment in Waziristan, by the King of all the Waziris, who had used it to snipe at Lord Roberts during the 2nd Afghan War (1878-1880). The weapon is equipped with a folding, pronged rest and the stock is covered with a thick saddle of camel-skin.

rickystl · 30th May 2016, 04:19 PM

Hi Ibrahiim.
Thanks for the great photos. As Richard mentions, many of the Toradors were indeed works of art. And beautiful powder flasks!! I would never think of using any of those specimens for "field use". LOL

They would simply sit on my shelf for display. LOL
The matchlock with the bipod and leather butt pad: The bipod of course would be used to steady the gun while aiming. And the rear leather pad would help absorb the recoil while using heavy charges of powder. But I could also visulize the extra large leather pad being rested on the ground, the bipod adjusted accordingly, and the entire gun resting on the ground, while aiming - lying on the ground. Interesting.

Richard: I've seen the most common pan cover that pivots and covers the top of the pan. And also the style that pivots the same, but covers both the top and bottom of the pan. But I don't believe I've ever seen the so called "slotted" style. Let me know if you run across a photo on one. Thanks.
Rick

Pukka Bundook · 30th May 2016, 04:36 PM

Will do Rick,

Can't think Where I saw these last, but will seek them out when I can!
BTW,

Did you see my Other Torador further down the page?

I like this one, even if it needs mending!

Beautiful flasks, Ibrahiim!!

rickystl · 30th May 2016, 05:04 PM

Yes, I just now posted a response. That will turn out a beauty !!!!
Rick

22nd May 2016, 04:57 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Another Torador barrel. Morning Gents. Recently I acquired another torador, and would appreciate any suggestions as to age or origins. It is not yet in hand, so only have a few limited photos. The style of koftgari is unlike my other example, so not from the same workshop I don't think, though Possibly from Oudh still. I do wish there were books with definite facts regarding these arms. Barrel is I believe 55" long. Here are the photos; Comments welcome! Richard. Attached Images

22nd May 2016, 05:09 PM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	For the sake of comparison, here is the other barrel, with koftgari. The one I believe came from Oudh......... Same workshop,........or same area with a similar ideas as to design? I'd appreciate any suggestions! Richard. Attached Images

28th May 2016, 08:52 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I gave myself 10 minutes to drum up a few Torador suspects...with angle off shots showing the interesting parts ... Attached Images

29th May 2016, 07:58 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I had never heard of the term of plank stock for these guns but it is very fitting. see http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/66/lid/3268 for a typical plankstock Indian Gun... Torador. Thought to add some Indian gunpowder flasks for interest. Attached Images

29th May 2016, 10:11 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I wondered how armouries stored these weapons... see http://wootz.co/early-19th-century-p...-fort-armoury/ I add a few more library pictures..Chart from Stone ...etc Indian soldiers needed to be able to shoot from a variety of positions either from Forts or horse back and occasionally camel. Regarding the weird bi pod weapon...probably quite an accurate gun...This weapon was presented to Major Shaw of the Indian Army, whilst he was commanding a detachment in Waziristan, by the King of all the Waziris, who had used it to snipe at Lord Roberts during the 2nd Afghan War (1878-1880). The weapon is equipped with a folding, pronged rest and the stock is covered with a thick saddle of camel-skin. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 30th May 2016 at 12:02 AM. Reason: AERYTRH

28th May 2016, 05:52 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Richard. WOW!! Nice barrels - both!! The silver work does in fact look like it could have come from the same workshop. I notice one barrel still retains it's pan cover (yay!) and the other appears to have intentionally been made without a cover. The brass barrel bands in the first photo look interesting. Do you have any more pics of them close up? Thanks, Rick.

29th May 2016, 05:18 AM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, No more photos until they both arrive, and I purchase one near on 3 years ago! (they both should be here in hopefully a week or 3 now) They both seem similar in layout, just the actual koftgari appears different. The barrels from Oudh often had no pan covers that swiveled, but rather one that slotted over the pan. In fact, it was noted if an Oudh barrel had a pan -cover in the conventional meaning, as they were rather scarce. I believe one barrel is 53" & one 55". Bores are reported by my pal and agent as V. good! Ibrahiim, Thank you for the extra images; Some toradors are indeed a work of art. :-)

30th May 2016, 04:19 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Ibrahiim. Thanks for the great photos. As Richard mentions, many of the Toradors were indeed works of art. And beautiful powder flasks!! I would never think of using any of those specimens for "field use". LOL They would simply sit on my shelf for display. LOL The matchlock with the bipod and leather butt pad: The bipod of course would be used to steady the gun while aiming. And the rear leather pad would help absorb the recoil while using heavy charges of powder. But I could also visulize the extra large leather pad being rested on the ground, the bipod adjusted accordingly, and the entire gun resting on the ground, while aiming - lying on the ground. Interesting. Richard: I've seen the most common pan cover that pivots and covers the top of the pan. And also the style that pivots the same, but covers both the top and bottom of the pan. But I don't believe I've ever seen the so called "slotted" style. Let me know if you run across a photo on one. Thanks. Rick

30th May 2016, 04:36 PM	#9
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Will do Rick, Can't think Where I saw these last, but will seek them out when I can! BTW, Did you see my Other Torador further down the page? I like this one, even if it needs mending! Beautiful flasks, Ibrahiim!!

30th May 2016, 05:04 PM	#10
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Yes, I just now posted a response. That will turn out a beauty !!!! Rick