OZ members. Can you receive knives in the post from overseas?

Atlantia · 16th August 2008, 12:58 PM

Just that really, a chap in Australia wants me to send him a largish knife, is that OK with local laws?

Thanks
Gene

Chris Evans · 16th August 2008, 01:14 PM

Hi Gene,

Yes and no. I have been importing navajas and sundry folding knives, some quite large, for years and never had a problem, though a couple of times was forced to pay GST and customs clearance expenses.

I suppose in the end, it comes down to how the customs see the import in relation to federal and state legislation. If they think that it is a prohibited item, then get ready for lots of arguments. In general, double edged, automatics and balisongs attract immediate confiscations unless the importer has a prohibited weapons licence.

If it comes to an argument, it is better to be affiliated with a recognized club such as the Australian Knife Collectors Association.

Cheers
Chris

Atlantia · 16th August 2008, 01:42 PM

Oh, um, its one of these:
http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=9252

LOL, I know, you didn't realise Star Trek fans could be so dangerous!

I take it this may be a problem?

Thanks mate
Gene

Rick · 16th August 2008, 03:37 PM

I would expect this item would attract the Confiscators .

Double edged .

Atlantia · 16th August 2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I would expect this item would attract the Confiscators .

Double edged .

The bloke's just got back to me and he says its OK as long as I mark it as 'collectors fantasy knife' and he's got double edged knives in the post before.....
hmmmm, what do you think?

Chris Evans · 17th August 2008, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

The bloke's just got back to me and he says its OK as long as I mark it as 'collectors fantasy knife' and he's got double edged knives in the post before.....
hmmmm, what do you think?

Well, not every parcel is opened by customs...... Of the knives that I have bought, about 1 in 3 has the "Opened by Customs" sticker on the parcel.

Cheers
Chris

Gavin Nugent · 17th August 2008, 02:55 AM

It is a federal offense to import any double edged weapon under 40cms in length, from there it is up to each individuals state police to deam it an offense or not. It is best to have permits in order before it lands.

Gav

Rick · 17th August 2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Well, not every parcel is opened by customs...... Of the knives that I have bought, about 1 in 3 has the "Opened by Customs" sticker on the parcel.

Cheers
Chris

Wow !
thirty percent of your stuff gets opened ?!?

I don't think US Customs has opened even one of the 30 odd pieces I've gotten from O' Seas .

Rick

A. G. Maisey · 17th August 2008, 10:52 PM

There are two levels of Australian knife legislation:- Commonwealth, and State.

Under Commonwealth law it is illegal to import certain items of weaponry, including "daggers".

The Commonwealth Act carries a definition of "dagger" that seems to have been drafted with the Fairburn -Sykes dagger specifically in mind, and there are a number of bases which would provide solid legal argument against its application to most of the knives that we think of as "daggers", and that are currently stopped at the Australian border. I think it is possible that a challenge was mounted some time ago in respect of hunting knives with a false edge, which Australian Customs had deemed to be "double edge", and a favourable outcome was achieved.

However, for all practical purposes, the magic number is 40cm.
The combined Australian heads of State Police forces have determined that a weapon with two edges and shorter than 40cm., is concealable, longer than 40cm., it is not concealable.
Since the Commonwealth legislation requires that a knife with two edges must be concealable to be refused entry to Australia, the Australian Customs Service has adopted as a guideline the length of 40cm. to determine whether or not a double edged knife is concealable.
The 40cm. is taken from the end of the handle, to the tip of the blade.

It is important to note that this is a guideline, and is not written into legislation, thus it can be ignored in certain instances, and by individual Customs Officers, resulting in the knife in question being refused entry.

Apart from the "dagger" rule, there are other types of knives that are prohibited imports under Commonwealth legislation.

Additionally, legislation relating to knives varies from state to state, thus a particular type of knife may be allowed to enter Australia through the port of Sydney, which is in NSW, but may be denied entry through the port of Melbourne, which is in Victoria.

If one maintains an interest in edged weaponry in Australia, it is wise to be a member of a suitable organisation, such as the Australian Knife Collectors (AKC), or the Australian Antique Arms Collectors Society, or preferably, both.

In respect of postal items, within the last few months ---possibly as long as 12 months--- a system has been introduced that ensures every postal item entering Australia is x-rayed. Parcels are only opened if the x-ray examination raises a doubt. There is a relatively high degree of certainty that no prohibited item can enter Australia by post.

However, in spite of all these draconian restrictions, in some states at least, and perhaps in all states, avenues do exist to allow genuine collectors or other defined persons to possess these prohibited items.Thus, it is entirely possible that depending upon the individual status of a person he may be permitted to import and possess an item that would otherwise be refused entry to Australia.

The above treats Customs legislation in respect of Prohibited Imports, and touches upon State legislation in respect of Prohibited Weapons.Apart from these areas of legislation there is also legislation that covers Australia's quarantine laws, which are very probably the most restrictive in the world. The import of ethnographic weaponry into Australia requires a fairly high degree of knowledge of the relevant laws in order to proceed without hinderance.

Atlantia · 17th August 2008, 11:06 PM

Wow, thanks everyone.
AGM:
BIG thanks-to-you for spelling it out so clearly. I have cancelled the transaction.

ariel · 18th August 2008, 03:16 AM

On purely esthetical grounds I applaud the vigilance of the Australian Customs: the so-called "fantasy knives" should not be allowed anywhere. All these Swords of Conan, Mermaid, Klingon, Elven King and Cinderella should be banned and the manufacturers should be sentenced to a mandatory course of Art Appreciation.

Rick · 18th August 2008, 03:50 AM

sjors · 18th August 2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

On purely esthetical grounds I applaud the vigilance of the Australian Customs

I agree

Atlantia · 18th August 2008, 12:17 PM

As a vegan, I'd much rather see decorative fantasy knives than hunting knives!
Horses for courses I guess, I collect film props, and the type of knife in question was actually used in Star Trek (TNG, DS9, and the film Generations).

Rod Charters · 19th August 2008, 08:49 AM

I've had 5 or 6 knives impounded by Australian customs in Perth. The best approach is to get a permit from the police prior to importation, but a permit can also be obtained after a knife has been impounded. In both cases and in my experience, getting the permit has been a relatively easy exercise providing you have pictures and a description of the items. In all cases customs have released the items upon presentation of the permit, although they have a tendancy to be excessively bureacratic.

Best regards

Rod

Atlantia · 19th August 2008, 11:37 AM

Hi Rod,
This has been a really informative thread for me. I had no idea how Draconian Australian laws are on importing knives now.
Even UK law (which I thought was positively Orwellian) seems light by comparison.
Its such a chame when a few idiots cause governments to feel the need to impliment such harsh laws,
As I've said, i'm a peace loving vegan! I collect edged weapons because of their historical importance and film props because I like movies!
I don't even like stepping on snails by accident!
Hardly a threat to society!
And yet we collectors are frowned on by society and somehow equated with knife crime (most of which in the UK is perpetrated with kitchen knives).
Its about as logical as demonising Chefs!

*rant over*

;-)

Regards
Gene

16th August 2008, 12:58 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	OZ members. Can you receive knives in the post from overseas? Just that really, a chap in Australia wants me to send him a largish knife, is that OK with local laws? Thanks Gene

16th August 2008, 01:42 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Oh, um, its one of these: http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=9252 LOL, I know, you didn't realise Star Trek fans could be so dangerous! I take it this may be a problem? Thanks mate Gene Last edited by Atlantia; 16th August 2008 at 02:26 PM.

17th August 2008, 02:55 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	An offense It is a federal offense to import any double edged weapon under 40cms in length, from there it is up to each individuals state police to deam it an offense or not. It is best to have permits in order before it lands. Gav

16th August 2008, 01:14 PM	#2
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 676	Hi Gene, Yes and no. I have been importing navajas and sundry folding knives, some quite large, for years and never had a problem, though a couple of times was forced to pay GST and customs clearance expenses. I suppose in the end, it comes down to how the customs see the import in relation to federal and state legislation. If they think that it is a prohibited item, then get ready for lots of arguments. In general, double edged, automatics and balisongs attract immediate confiscations unless the importer has a prohibited weapons licence. If it comes to an argument, it is better to be affiliated with a recognized club such as the Australian Knife Collectors Association. Cheers Chris

16th August 2008, 03:37 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	I would expect this item would attract the Confiscators . Double edged .

17th August 2008, 10:52 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	There are two levels of Australian knife legislation:- Commonwealth, and State. Under Commonwealth law it is illegal to import certain items of weaponry, including "daggers". The Commonwealth Act carries a definition of "dagger" that seems to have been drafted with the Fairburn -Sykes dagger specifically in mind, and there are a number of bases which would provide solid legal argument against its application to most of the knives that we think of as "daggers", and that are currently stopped at the Australian border. I think it is possible that a challenge was mounted some time ago in respect of hunting knives with a false edge, which Australian Customs had deemed to be "double edge", and a favourable outcome was achieved. However, for all practical purposes, the magic number is 40cm. The combined Australian heads of State Police forces have determined that a weapon with two edges and shorter than 40cm., is concealable, longer than 40cm., it is not concealable. Since the Commonwealth legislation requires that a knife with two edges must be concealable to be refused entry to Australia, the Australian Customs Service has adopted as a guideline the length of 40cm. to determine whether or not a double edged knife is concealable. The 40cm. is taken from the end of the handle, to the tip of the blade. It is important to note that this is a guideline, and is not written into legislation, thus it can be ignored in certain instances, and by individual Customs Officers, resulting in the knife in question being refused entry. Apart from the "dagger" rule, there are other types of knives that are prohibited imports under Commonwealth legislation. Additionally, legislation relating to knives varies from state to state, thus a particular type of knife may be allowed to enter Australia through the port of Sydney, which is in NSW, but may be denied entry through the port of Melbourne, which is in Victoria. If one maintains an interest in edged weaponry in Australia, it is wise to be a member of a suitable organisation, such as the Australian Knife Collectors (AKC), or the Australian Antique Arms Collectors Society, or preferably, both. In respect of postal items, within the last few months ---possibly as long as 12 months--- a system has been introduced that ensures every postal item entering Australia is x-rayed. Parcels are only opened if the x-ray examination raises a doubt. There is a relatively high degree of certainty that no prohibited item can enter Australia by post. However, in spite of all these draconian restrictions, in some states at least, and perhaps in all states, avenues do exist to allow genuine collectors or other defined persons to possess these prohibited items.Thus, it is entirely possible that depending upon the individual status of a person he may be permitted to import and possess an item that would otherwise be refused entry to Australia. The above treats Customs legislation in respect of Prohibited Imports, and touches upon State legislation in respect of Prohibited Weapons.Apart from these areas of legislation there is also legislation that covers Australia's quarantine laws, which are very probably the most restrictive in the world. The import of ethnographic weaponry into Australia requires a fairly high degree of knowledge of the relevant laws in order to proceed without hinderance.

17th August 2008, 11:06 PM	#10
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Wow, thanks everyone. AGM: BIG thanks-to-you for spelling it out so clearly. I have cancelled the transaction.

18th August 2008, 03:16 AM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	On purely esthetical grounds I applaud the vigilance of the Australian Customs: the so-called "fantasy knives" should not be allowed anywhere. All these Swords of Conan, Mermaid, Klingon, Elven King and Cinderella should be banned and the manufacturers should be sentenced to a mandatory course of Art Appreciation.

18th August 2008, 03:50 AM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291

18th August 2008, 12:17 PM	#14
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	As a vegan, I'd much rather see decorative fantasy knives than hunting knives! Horses for courses I guess, I collect film props, and the type of knife in question was actually used in Star Trek (TNG, DS9, and the film Generations).

19th August 2008, 08:49 AM	#15
Rod Charters Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 48	I've had 5 or 6 knives impounded by Australian customs in Perth. The best approach is to get a permit from the police prior to importation, but a permit can also be obtained after a knife has been impounded. In both cases and in my experience, getting the permit has been a relatively easy exercise providing you have pictures and a description of the items. In all cases customs have released the items upon presentation of the permit, although they have a tendancy to be excessively bureacratic. Best regards Rod

19th August 2008, 11:37 AM	#16
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Rod, This has been a really informative thread for me. I had no idea how Draconian Australian laws are on importing knives now. Even UK law (which I thought was positively Orwellian) seems light by comparison. Its such a chame when a few idiots cause governments to feel the need to impliment such harsh laws, As I've said, i'm a peace loving vegan! I collect edged weapons because of their historical importance and film props because I like movies! I don't even like stepping on snails by accident! Hardly a threat to society! And yet we collectors are frowned on by society and somehow equated with knife crime (most of which in the UK is perpetrated with kitchen knives). Its about as logical as demonising Chefs! rant over ;-) Regards Gene