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#1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Silesia, Poland
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I don`t have any idea where this knife comes from. I thought maybe Balkans, but I didn`t find anything really similar. Can you help?
The knife is about 25cm long. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
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Is the grip one-piece with a full length stalk tang? Is it horn?
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#3 |
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For some reason I'm also thinking Balkan/Turkish possibly Greek....
Nice piece! Last edited by Atlantia; 11th June 2011 at 02:00 PM. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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I agree looks Turkish.
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#5 |
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Location: Silesia, Poland
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Grip is made of horn, but I didn`t have it in my hands so far. I`ll write more about it on Tuesday. What`s an English term for the punched embelishments on the blade? It was very common in the whole Carpathian region till WW1/WW2.
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Silesia, Poland
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I have found very similar ornaments on the blades of Bosnian and Silesian highlanders` traditional knives (respectively). Silesian highlanders live on the Czech - Polish border, and are the most north-western descendants of Vallachian shepherds from the Balkans (came in 15th century). The similarities are conspicuous. |
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#7 |
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Such a tang seems more Persian or European than Turkish.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bulgaria
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This is a Bosnian or Croatian knife. They are called youth knives are worn by young men who were not married.
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#9 |
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the first knife is typical Balkan, comming from the Ottoman influence but found in Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia till 1945.
The other is typical for Bosnia and surrounding border area of Croatia and Serbia. Also backdating from the Ottoman times. Typical are the circular , sometimes straighh lines, looking like a "naive"like semi sun with little stars around. As you can see in the examples. Used as multi use knives for fishing, hunting and such. Given to older boys but also a good companion for an adult , and ...useful if needed in a fight in those days. They also exist with a slight longer blade. Last edited by gp; 22nd May 2022 at 01:23 AM. |
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#10 |
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2 more examples of the first one which are from 1930-1945 Croatia
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#11 | |
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#12 |
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Hi Gunar,
I think the two knives are different from the knife in question, similar yes but different. I guess that my knife, shown in this thread; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=black is a match. Regards, Detlef |
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#13 |
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The clasp knife is a classical Ваlkan example: short and wide blade with a pronounced clip point. There are many identical examples shown in Tarik Gozo’s book “ Balkan Arms”. The exaggerated clip point is likely a purely technical feature to fit the wide blade into the curved handle: otherwise the blade would massively protrude and make the overall contour uncomfortable. The only example of a similar blade I know is the so-called Malappuram Katti from Kerala: but that area in India was heavily influenced by Arabs and Turks.
But what is really interesting is the blades of the non-clasp variety. They are identical to the panoply of Central Asian P’chaks , commonly known as “Bukhara” or “Uzbek” knives: among the shown examples we see Tugri ( point at the level of the spine), Kaike ( point raised above the spine) and Kazakhcha ( narrow blade with a short clip point). It makes me wonder whether both Balkan and “Uzbek” knives are renditions of ancient Turkic knives retaining their shapes in both localities for the past half-millenium. |
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#14 | |
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I have the text in English but never knew how to interpret this "claim" Last edited by gp; 25th May 2022 at 09:07 PM. |
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#15 | |
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Yours originate from the Ottoman times or taken as example from them by good makers. Similar can indeed be found in other regions The 2 which I showed are not that bad but way less and locally made by some craftsmen in Southern Croatia or Herzegovina, decades later WWII or just a decade prior that when a decline in the craftmanship early started or just a cheap and simpler version was made for a non "noble"... definitely a quality difference as well indeed Last edited by gp; 25th May 2022 at 10:01 PM. |
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#16 | |
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just bought one of the non-clasp / straight variety ones (together with a clasp one) in Hercegovina where they are sometimes found & offered for sale and it looks very similar to both shown ones at the top and by Detlef's link. It is a typical knife known and used in the past there, confirmed by the local folks. With the interaction in the Ottoman times it could well be some kind of exchange took or could have taken place between regions perhaps. Unfortunately a lot is written about big fancy swords and daggers but hardly anything on this smaller knives Last edited by gp; 3rd June 2022 at 11:34 PM. |
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#17 |
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Is that a regulation size cat?
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#18 |
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There is no such thing as a regulation size cat, they vary dimensionally, but not mentally. They ALL love boxes, and will push things off shelves, counter tops, cliffs, edges in general.
They all will quite happily live with humans, and even love and protect their own human pride members. But they remain cats. Obligate Carnivores. As long as you feed them and respect their personal space, you are relatively safe. Just remember that if they get hungry, you are ultimately their mobile food store. They always have a plan in the back of their heads on how to kill and eat you. Remember, the cat is ultimately in charge, not you. You are its servant. |
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#19 |
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#20 |
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also 2 different ones I bought some time ago in the Balkans
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#21 |
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just got a 3rd one; a small Bosnian knife or little dagger.
Some call it kama, other cakija others again noz... Depends whom you are talking to and where. It is # 3 on the pics. Nevertheless sharp they are and deadly as well. Nicely decorated with similar paterns on the blade, small curved lines and dots ( triangle and circular) First one with a scabbard although nothing fanciful like the bicaks who have wooden scabberds with copper decorated overlay. Only metal left; could well be that either cloth or leather did cover it at some time , which has gone or deteriorated through the times. Timewise diffecult to determine; could be anything from 1860ies to 1930ies. Handle or grip is bone, decorated with colored circular signs ( not as nice as the bichaqs which have inlays) , one without quillion and two with. One without a rear bolster / pommel and two with |
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#22 |
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There is not a single Bosnian knife in the photograph shown.They are characteristic of the region of Θεσσαλονίκη/Thessaloniki/Солун located on the territory of present-day Greece.There, the ethnic composition of the population is so diverse that there is no way to define exactly which ethnic area the knives belong to
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#23 | |
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Either a woman is pregnant or not, but there does not exist something like a little pregnant…(defining it to yet a region….) ![]() Nevertheless….I bought 2 out of 3 in Herzegovina…which is part of Bosnia now and in the past since the Kingdom of Tvurtko. Than again a lot of folks from different etnicities lived in Bosnia and Hercegovina: Vlachs, Montenegrins, Serbian, Croation, Bosnian, Turkish, Albanian, Greek, Roma, Sephardic Jewish….hence many influences did enter, were taken over into different ways of live. In a multicultural society like the Ottoman Balkans was, one must be careful to make such firm statements…. When you mention characteristics, mention them specifically and in detail, but I can assure you that there are also Austrian books on the Balkans from 1880 which mention characteristics dedicated to (perhaps) others…. Solun was not Greek but Macedonian with a first in the Balkans very heavy Sephardic population, which spread later to other countries an regions like Serbia, Dalmatia, BiH and so on ….. I can only claim where I did buy the knife… Last edited by gp; 11th September 2023 at 05:48 PM. |
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#24 | |
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Look...I have no desire to argue. You can believe whatever you want. The very fact that you claim that Thessalonica was Macedonian ![]() In my humble opinion, the knives you have shown are not typical Bosnian knives. ![]() |
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#25 | |
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![]() Kindly requested to provide me the characteristics of your determination as I am most eager to learn from your wisdom and also the literature where I can find this to add that / enlarge my small collection of books... |
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#26 |
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Ethnic attributions can be tricky and loaded with potential controversy. Geographically, I have seen a mention of "солунски ножове" (Thessalonica knives) in Bulgarian literature, and seems to refer to small knives with bone hilts with the solar decorative motive, like the second one from top to bottom on your stand.
Yours came from Herzegovina, which may mean that it was made there or it may mean that it simply ended up there at one point after being made elsewhere. I cannot claim anything conclusively, but I believe Osobist may be on to something in this case. |
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#27 | |
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#28 | |
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( except the fancy decorated ones, specially golden and belonging to the wealthy aga's or aristocrats and rich landowners). In the Balkans ( Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia and Montengro) the last 10 years quite interesting publications and books have been published ! The hilt or grip looks like Balkan and can be seen on a lot of bichaqs but sadly seems to miss its ferrule like you can see here : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=bichaq or in my collection http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ion#post283727 But as for the blade, narrow and long, I can not say for sure as I have not seen this type that often; mostly at auction houses with fancy or strange description of origin...sometimes even as an African dagger :-) being doubtful, I never touched them... The type of scabbard I have seen some similar ones in Montenegrin ones but also Greek cold arms but that is a region I have limited knowledge on. This specific one; although a nice scabbard, the knife looks incomplete to me (ferrule f.i.) , and hence I would not have it in my collection, no disrespect nor offence intended at all... Last edited by gp; 13th September 2023 at 02:04 PM. |
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#29 | |
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Regarding my knife...don't worry at all, you're not the only one who can't identify it. I have an affinity for mysterious objects ![]() ![]() |
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#30 |
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Osobist,
Your last item is very interesting. I'm not experienced at all in the subtleties of edged weapons from the Balkans and neighboring areas. However, I do like cross-cultural pieces and this particular item seems to be full of multicultural influences. The very nice sheath looks Greek to me, the hilt from Sarajevo or thereabouts, and the much sharpened blade from somewhere in the Mediterranean region. I don't know whether the sheath has always been with the knife but the hilt and blade seem to have had a long term relationship. What are your thoughts on your knife? |
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