Nice Old Sudanese/Somali Shield For Comment

Lew · 28th June 2005, 03:39 AM

Hi Tim,Freddy,Flavio and All

This just arrived today! An old African shield Sudanese or Somali? It measures about 14" across and has a lovely patina. The shield is in almost mint condition and is quite heavy for it's size. It seems to be made of hippo hide? Here are some shots mixed in with some period daggers and a sword. Let me know what you think?

Lew

Tim Simmons · 28th June 2005, 07:02 PM

Hi Lew, thats a very nice shield excellent condition. I am sure these shields are used in Sudanese areas but they are normally listed as Somali and Ethiopian. There seems to be several versions of this type which are said to be made of Giraffe or Oryx hide. The one I have post is made of leather 5mm thick. The other shield, the leather is 12mm thick which is Hippo or Rhino skin. How thick is the leather on your example? How nice to have the related weaponry. Tim

Tim Simmons · 28th June 2005, 07:14 PM

These pictures of Somali warriors show some of the varriation. Tim

Lew · 28th June 2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Hi Lew, thats a very nice shield excellent condition. I am sure these shields are used in Sudanese areas but they are normally listed as Somali and Ethiopian. There seems to be several versions of this type which are said to be made of Giraffe or Oryx hide. The one I have post is made of leather 5mm thick. The other shield, the leather is 12mm thick which is Hippo or Rhino skin. How thick is the leather on your example? How nice to have the related weaponry. Tim

Tim

My shield is around 10-12mm also 3/8-1/2 inch thick. Is that a Somali sword I spy in the background?

Lew

Tim Simmons · 28th June 2005, 08:30 PM

Yes Somali, shortsword and knives .Tim

Flavio · 28th June 2005, 11:10 PM

Hi Guys very beautiful items!! I haven't a shield to show

but an Hadendoa knife and a sudanese one

Tim Simmons · 29th June 2005, 08:42 PM

I have read that shields made in the horn of Africa were in use and exported as trade items to many neighbouring countries, I would imagine many weapons probably travelled some distance from centers of manufacture. Tim

Tim Simmons · 2nd July 2005, 11:28 AM

I just got this today at a local junk market and thought I should add it to this thread. This completes the set of standard Somali warrior weapons for me. The sword, dagger, spear, shield, I have forgotten the club the warrior in the picture is holding.

one more to go. Tim

ariel · 2nd July 2005, 11:49 AM

I am always surprised by Hadendoa daggers: at first blush they appear to be crude, but are usually incredibly sharp.
The handles are very well carved from hard wood and the blades are secured very well. What kind of wood did they use and how did they secure the blades?

Tim Simmons · 2nd July 2005, 12:19 PM

The one I have, appears to have been glued into the hilt at the time of manufacture with some sort of organic glue or resin. I have just had another look with a jewellers loop and the glue looks very much like gum arabic. Tim

Lew · 2nd July 2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I am always surprised by Hadendoa daggers: at first blush they appear to be crude, but are usually incredibly sharp.
The handles are very well carved from hard wood and the blades are secured very well. What kind of wood did they use and how did they secure the blades?

Ariel

The wood is called African Blackwood it's very dense it is more stable when it comes to shrinkage than ebony.

Lew

spiral · 4th July 2005, 05:19 PM

The African blackwood used is actualy a Dalbergia specis. {Rosewood.} & is more resiliant & heaveir than most of the ebonies.

Lots of woodwind instruments are made of it.

Spiral

Freddy · 13th July 2005, 09:57 PM

Hi guys,

Here's my shield. I traded it sometime ago with a German friend for an African knife. It's made of some kind of thick leather. Could it be hippo ? It's diameter is about 44 cm. There are traces of red and white paint.

My friend told me it originates from Sudan.

REMEMBERGORDON · 27th February 2006, 08:56 PM

The two thick ones look like hippo hide shields as used by Hadendoa and Beja tribesmen in the Sudan in the 19th-early 20th century. They were usually undecorated on the outside and sometimes had a couple of notches on the outer edge...commonly used in the battles at Khartoum and Omdurman. I am looking for a good Hadendoa hippo hide shield circa 1880s...if anyone has any leads.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 28th February 2006, 11:16 PM

Nice set Lew !
From Sudan (except throwing knives) I have just this strange long dagger.
The blade is engraving (acid) with coranic texts on both side, the handle is made of wood, sort of glass beads and strand of copper.
The scabbard is made with a tail of a crocodile

Luc

Lew · 11th March 2006, 04:29 PM

Luc

Some people say that I am a bit obsessed with Sudanese arm daggers

Lew

Tim Simmons · 11th March 2006, 09:56 PM

Lew look at the center of the boss on your beautiful shield, it too has the indentation of the jig, the concentric circles were not tooled/rolled into the leather freehand. I am getting more confident about my theory. The wheel was/is used across mediterranean N Africa and surely the red sea coast to include Somalia. This jig need only be a simple wooden structure. Tim

28th June 2005, 03:39 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Nice Old Sudanese/Somali Shield For Comment Hi Tim,Freddy,Flavio and All This just arrived today! An old African shield Sudanese or Somali? It measures about 14" across and has a lovely patina. The shield is in almost mint condition and is quite heavy for it's size. It seems to be made of hippo hide? Here are some shots mixed in with some period daggers and a sword. Let me know what you think? Lew Attached Images

28th June 2005, 07:02 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hi Lew, thats a very nice shield excellent condition. I am sure these shields are used in Sudanese areas but they are normally listed as Somali and Ethiopian. There seems to be several versions of this type which are said to be made of Giraffe or Oryx hide. The one I have post is made of leather 5mm thick. The other shield, the leather is 12mm thick which is Hippo or Rhino skin. How thick is the leather on your example? How nice to have the related weaponry. Tim Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 28th June 2005 at 07:29 PM.

28th June 2005, 07:14 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	These pictures of Somali warriors show some of the varriation. Tim Attached Images

28th June 2005, 08:30 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Yes Somali, shortsword and knives .Tim Attached Images

28th June 2005, 11:10 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Guys very beautiful items!! I haven't a shield to show but an Hadendoa knife and a sudanese one Attached Images

29th June 2005, 08:42 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I have read that shields made in the horn of Africa were in use and exported as trade items to many neighbouring countries, I would imagine many weapons probably travelled some distance from centers of manufacture. Tim Attached Images

2nd July 2005, 11:28 AM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I just got this today at a local junk market and thought I should add it to this thread. This completes the set of standard Somali warrior weapons for me. The sword, dagger, spear, shield, I have forgotten the club the warrior in the picture is holding. one more to go. Tim Attached Images

2nd July 2005, 11:49 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am always surprised by Hadendoa daggers: at first blush they appear to be crude, but are usually incredibly sharp. The handles are very well carved from hard wood and the blades are secured very well. What kind of wood did they use and how did they secure the blades?

2nd July 2005, 12:19 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The one I have, appears to have been glued into the hilt at the time of manufacture with some sort of organic glue or resin. I have just had another look with a jewellers loop and the glue looks very much like gum arabic. Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 2nd July 2005 at 12:57 PM.

4th July 2005, 05:19 PM	#12
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The African blackwood used is actualy a Dalbergia specis. {Rosewood.} & is more resiliant & heaveir than most of the ebonies. Lots of woodwind instruments are made of it. Spiral

13th July 2005, 09:57 PM	#13
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Hi guys, Here's my shield. I traded it sometime ago with a German friend for an African knife. It's made of some kind of thick leather. Could it be hippo ? It's diameter is about 44 cm. There are traces of red and white paint. My friend told me it originates from Sudan.

27th February 2006, 08:56 PM	#14
REMEMBERGORDON Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1	Hadendoa Hippo Shields The two thick ones look like hippo hide shields as used by Hadendoa and Beja tribesmen in the Sudan in the 19th-early 20th century. They were usually undecorated on the outside and sometimes had a couple of notches on the outer edge...commonly used in the battles at Khartoum and Omdurman. I am looking for a good Hadendoa hippo hide shield circa 1880s...if anyone has any leads.

28th February 2006, 11:16 PM	#15
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Crocodile Nice set Lew ! From Sudan (except throwing knives) I have just this strange long dagger. The blade is engraving (acid) with coranic texts on both side, the handle is made of wood, sort of glass beads and strand of copper. The scabbard is made with a tail of a crocodile Luc Attached Images

11th March 2006, 04:29 PM	#16
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Luc Some people say that I am a bit obsessed with Sudanese arm daggers Lew Attached Images

11th March 2006, 09:56 PM	#17
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Lew look at the center of the boss on your beautiful shield, it too has the indentation of the jig, the concentric circles were not tooled/rolled into the leather freehand. I am getting more confident about my theory. The wheel was/is used across mediterranean N Africa and surely the red sea coast to include Somalia. This jig need only be a simple wooden structure. Tim