an old basic butcher knife , with American Indian sheath ? TRADE FUR KNIFE ?...

[francantolin]

Hello dear members,

I please need the advice of the Native American specialists of the forum

I come back from few days holidays and I found there in a second hand shop this piece,
it was with ''the old tools'': rusty saws, cobbler hammers, sickles ...

I saw this old knife, looked like an old european peasant working knife,
nothing special, not small not long : 30cm overall

Then I saw the scabbard with his indian style decorations,

I let it but I came back 30 minutes later remembering the knives sold/traded by europeans to native indians community I read about in a book time ago
so I took it ( hound dog...)

The hilt is interesting with lines/decorations matching with the one on the sheath and the sheath match perfectly with the blade.
( cf pictures)

Can it be one of these ?
Sure it can just be a later decoration/work from anybody in Europa or somewhere else,
but, I think it can be.

What do you think ?
Kind regards

[francantolin]

another pic of the other side of the scabbard,
decorated the same way
and a pic of the ''end''/ belt tie of the leather scabbard,
the knife pass trough

( strange shape indeed )

[Tim Simmons]

I so want this to be right but I am having a few doubts about it being genuine as we would want.
As a trade blade it is far to roughly forged. Most trade knives and repurposed table knives are well made and quality steel. The table knives show signs of remodelling or changed by sharpening. The scabbard form does fit some Native American knife cases, search AMNH Database. The decoration seems odd but there are no rules on what the decoration should be. The way it is constructed is like many African and Asian knives, the forging looks rather African or somebodies idea of what a Native American knife should look like. There are a few painted geometric style scabbards on the AMNH Database. If you acquired this knife at little cost you might have been lucky. Take photos and send to museums and let us know what the response is. Good luck.
https://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology...0%20%2F%201149

[colin henshaw]

An interesting item, I like the "primitive" appearance, gives it great character. My guess is its from the Sahara/Sahel region, perhaps Tuareg. My reasonings are :-

a) The sheath looks like from that area being goatskin tanned on one side, the red colour is fairly common. The style of the flap leather extension(s) is similar to other sheaths from the area.
b) I have seen similar small triangular cutouts to the leather on Tuareg telek dagger sheaths and some Saharan swords.
c) The knotty wood hilt.
d) The riveted plates have a Sahara/Sahel "look".

I could be wrong of course, in which country did you find the piece ?

[francantolin]

Hello,

Thank you for your comments and especially Tim for the link of the anthropology site !

I got it in south of France,
so just to cross the mediterranean sea for arrive in Africa

it can be from north Africa
Sahel Area but I had time ago one of these knives with goat skin and it wasn't seewed this way, the leather was thicker and smell '' a little'' as
often,
not this one, don't seems made with the same skin, though but thin

Intersting too: the scabbard is made of an unique piece of leather, didn't saw that before.


The wooden hilt seems for me made with european wood like old european ''peasant'' knives ,axe handles more than wood usually used in Africa but maybe I'm wrong or it can have been modified in Africa from an european knife...

I found on the net, the Parfleche indian leather/containers made of
rawhide leather who can look like,
sure the red color is not the funniest one as we often find in Native American decorations/ornaments...

But maybe it can match, more than african for me, sure.

Another possibility:
it just can have been made by an european 70's hippie artist or something ...

I'll contact the museum and see what they can tell me.
Again Thank you Tim !

[francantolin]

the parflêche...