Snipers

nechesh · 2nd December 2005, 03:00 PM

Well Lee closed the thread i intended to post this on and he might close this one too, but i wanted to have a say on this subject of sniping and Andrew did suggest to start a new thread on it so here goes:
This is really beginning to take on an air of absurdity. Robert, i would hate to see you leave the forum over such ridiculousness. From my own point, i have never sniped anyone from this forum on an eBay auction as far as i know. I have, however, been sniped by at least one very well respected member. SO WHAT! They are just swords guys, and there are more examples out there. There have always been far more people willing to kill each other with the bloody things then there are those like ourselves who are passionate about collecting them, so they will keep popping up.
Ebay offers a feature which allows a bidder to place his highest bid and keep it hidden from other bidders. It only applies as much as is necessary to win the auction. Whether someone is bidding all along or bids at the last minute, if you are honest with yourself about the highest price you are willing to pay for something, what does it really matter when someone outbids you? From the evidence it appears that Laban Tayo made his highest bid as the very first bid on the item and then sat back and watched people try to outbid him. Given this stategy i assume you made that first bid your highest bid. But i guess you didn't watch closely enough because apparently someone else outbid you a full FOUR hours before Robert made his bid. So how exactly did he "snipe" you?
Ebay bidding is a game of sorts. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. So when you lose the game, is it fair to say, in essence, "knowledge about these things is MY football, so i'm just going to take my ball and go home!". C'mon guys, get real. This idea of withholding knowledge is very disturbing to me. Like Lee and i am sure others, i was very disheartened to see the way the thread went on this subject. We are suppose to ALL be brothers here in the pursuit of knowledge.

Andrew · 2nd December 2005, 04:06 PM

Let's please put this one to rest. If anyone wants to continue discussing this particular situation, feel free to do so via PM or email.

Thread closed.

Lee · 2nd December 2005, 04:18 PM

Very well said Nechesh.

Sadly, the very design of ebay leaves sniping as the most effective way of winning an item and winning it at the best possible price. The best strategy is to come in as late as you can, indeed so late that you will not have time to rebid, pre-emptively with your top offer.

Just as the Moderators team has found it necessary, for legal concerns, to restrict all discussions of open auctions, I would also like to remind members that 'ringing' an auction is a crime in many jurisdictions. The term 'ring,' I gather, derives from a group of dealers who decided which among them would bid upon which items in poorly attended rural auctions insuring a low price for the seller, and later holding a second private auction in the pub. But the laws on auction 'rings' are often more broadly written to prohibit any sort of collusion or conspiracy on bidding.

I also have largely come to stay away from the auction marketplace and to buy from dealers, largely for the prospect of examining an item closely before purchase or being able to return it if it disappoints.

If I do venture into ebay, I will do so as a sniper. As per discussions years ago in the forums, if I recognize an acquaintence or fellow forum member as the leading bidder, I will limit my actions to either 1. Not bidding and not consulting with anyone about this decision or 2. Advising the acquaintence to expect me to snipe, giving them the option to raise their maximum.

Lee · 2nd December 2005, 05:30 PM

Having inadvertently posted in a closed thread, I hesitatingly re-open the thread, as it was not my intention to 'have the last word.'

If you choose to contine with this thread, please do so in general, non-personal philosophical terms.

I have been sniped and the first time it happened to me at the hands of someone I knew I was pretty upset and I stayed that way for a while. In the end, I have realized that sniping is just part of the whole nasty brute-force-of-money auction world, and a reality that I had to accept if I wanted to participate that growing part of the marketplace.

VANDOO · 2nd December 2005, 05:56 PM

EBAY CAN BE VERY DEPRESSING IF YOU GET HAMMERED OVER AND OVER AND SEE PRICES PUSHED UP BEYOND YOUR ABILITY TO PAY. YOU KNOW YOU HAVE HAD IT WHEN DEALERS CAN ALWAYS OUTBID YOU AND THEN RESELL AT A LARGE PROFIT. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GIVE UP COLLECTING SOMETHING YOU HAVE BEEN COLLECTING FOR MANY YEARS BUT I CAN'T COMPLAIN AS I HAVE MY SHARE IN MYCOLLECTION ITS JUST HARD TO STOP. IT IS STRANGE, BUT GOING TO A GUN SHOW AND FINDING THE ITEMS YOU WANT PRICED OUT OF YOUR RANGE ISN'T AS FRUSTRATEING AS WATCHING EVERYTHING CLIMB RAPIDLY OUT OF SIGHT ON EBAY. I ALSO OCCASIONALY DON'T BID ON SOMETHING BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN BEATEN UP TOO MUCH AND SEE IT GO FOR A VERY GOOD PRICE FOR A CHANGE WHICH JUST PUTS SALT IN THE WOUNDS. FORTUNATELY I COLLECT OTHER THINGS AND CAN CONCENTRATE ON THEM, I RECENTLY CONTACTED A SELLER ABOUT A AUCTION ON EBAY THAT HAD WENT WITHOUT A BID 3 LISTINGS AND MADE A OFFER. I WAS TOLD THAT I WAS NOT A COLLECTOR AS I SHOULD BID WHATEVER IT TOOK TO GET WHAT I WANTED ON EBAY, FORTUNATELY I AM NOT THAT FAR GONE WITH THE COLLECTOR MALADY.

EBAY IS WHAT IT IS AND ITS TWO MAIN TRUTHS ARE "LET THE BUYER BEWARE" AND "YOU MAKES YOUR BID AND YOU TAKES YOUR CHANCES"

I DON'T THINK IT IS NECESSARY TO CONTACT A FELLOW FORUM MEMBER YOU RECOGNISE WHEN BIDDING UNLESS YOU WANT TO DO SO OUT OF COURTESY. A DEALER IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF LETTING THE COLLECTOR OUT BID HIM WHEN HE CAN BID MORE AND TURN A PROFIT SO THERE IS NO REASON TO GET MAD IF ONE DOES "JUST HOPE THEY AND THE OTHER COLLECTORS DON'T SEE IT"

EBAY IS NOT A FRIENDLY PLACE IT IS MORE LIKE A STOCK EXCHANGE DOG EAT DOG, SO IT IS NOT FOR THE WEAK HEARTED. I BACK OFF A LOT AND DON'T ACTIVELY SEARCH MORO OR PHILIPPINE ANYMORE AS THERE HASN'T BEEN A GOOD SCORE IN A VERY LONG TIME FOR ME. WHEN I JUST CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT AND IT ISN'T FUN I JUST STOP GOING TO EBAY FOR A WHILE AND REGROUP AND THEN PERHAPS JUMP BACK INTO THE FRAY AGAIN LATER.
ONE BIG PROBLEM IN MY AREA IS THAT ALL THE FLEA MARKETS,ANTIQUE STORES, ESTATE SALES,GARAGE SALES ARE SCOURED AND EVERYTHING GOES TO EBAY AND VERY LITTLE SHOWS UP AT LOCAL GUN SHOWS EITHER, SO MY OLD WAY OF COLLECTING NO LONGER WORKS. "SUCH IS LIFE"

END OF RANT

MABAGANI · 2nd December 2005, 07:00 PM

There's the $9.99 bargain first come first serve strategy of tagging an item with a forum name with a minimal bid, hoping other members will pass and end up not having to paying too much, which evidently is risky when others don't bother to check who's bidding or when new collectors start sniping everything in sight with overbids.
If a group of collectors all get sniped by the same person, what's the proper reaction when the items get paraded in a forum? Does the snipee lay down or does snoopie get to bark foul when the football is crapped on? It hit the fan but to my surprise knowledge was not withheld. Like a game it was fun to watch.
Beware, I'll stalk and snipe like the rest with top dollar in hand...if an item is extraordinary or if I need a fix from the dreaded bug. lolz

Mark · 2nd December 2005, 07:11 PM

I actually recognize only a handful of e-bay bidders as forum members, because they use different handles in the two places. That makes it hard to recognize a fellow forumite as a bidder and give them room on an auction even if you want to.

wolviex · 2nd December 2005, 07:12 PM

The accusations and all of this discussions are just ridiculous. Let me remind you that Ebay is an AUCTION, and on the AUCTIONS usually you should bid a higher prices to win the game. Passing by because you see the familiar name is a) act of great mercy b) or pure naivety. We've got over 500 members here and personally I don't feel like checking the whole list before starting to bid, just in case not to "offend" someone, even well known here and with great knowledge. Sitting on the live auctions, and seeing familiar faces I wouldn't hide in the corner pretending I'm not existing! Dissapointing is an usual feeling when you loose a fight, but there is honourable way of loosing the games. And if you are so blind because of material and worldly things think about your humanum.

I hope Robert won't quit and won't judge this forum because of such stupid incident, and I hope his adversaries will show some class and stop arguing!

Best regards!

Tim Simmons · 2nd December 2005, 07:58 PM

Thats about it. Well said wolviex

. Tim

Andrew · 2nd December 2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

If you choose to contine with this thread, please do so in general, non-personal philosophical terms.

My finger is on the lock button, gentlemen...

VANDOO · 2nd December 2005, 10:31 PM

DON'T GET TRIGGER HAPPY ANDREW OFTEN VENTING ONES FRUSTRATIONS IS A GOOD THING

THE GOOD THING HERE IS THAT IT IS NOT INTERFERING WITH A TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE MANIA TO COLLECT AND HATE TO LOSE SOMETHING WE WANTED BADLY IN THE LAST SECOND. THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT WORKS ON EBAY AND AT A ACTUAL AUCTION. THE COMPETICIAN HAS GOTTEN HOTTER AND THERE ARE NEW COLLECTORS WITH CASH IN HAND WANTING IN THE GAME AT ANY PRICE. THEY ARE DRIVEN LIKE WE ARE AND MAY GO ON A SPENDING BINGE WHEN THEY FIRST GET INTERESTED AND START LEARNING. I HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME BECAUSE WHAT I CONSIDER THE REASONABLE PRICE OF A ITEM IS WAY OUT OF DATE AND TO PAY MORE THAN I THINK IT IS WORTH MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A SUCKER AND THERE IS NO ENJOYMENT IN THAT. IF I RUN ACROSS SOMETHING I BID AND AM ON SOMEWHAT OF A BIDDING BENGE AT PRESENT BUT FORTUNATELY THE OTHER BIDDERS ARE SAVING ME FROM MYSELF. IF I WON EVERYTHING I BID ON I WOULD HAVE TO START HIDEING FROM THE BILL COLLECTORS AND TAX MAN SO THANKS GUYS

BUT OF COURSE I STILL DON'T LIKE LOSEING

I SURE WOULDN'T THROW AWAY A VALUABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION OR STOP SHAREING INFORMATION BECAUSE I WAS MAD THAT I LOST SOME ITEMS. THIS FORUM IS WORTH MORE THAN ANY MERE ITEM!

Aurangzeb · 3rd December 2005, 12:02 AM

I feel in my own opinion that for me at least sniping gives me a better chance to win( I really don't have a fortune

). I really am a little miser and have to get as far as possible on my minimal funding. Even when sniping I have been outsniped. I take a sort of 'All is fare in love and war' idea to Ebay. But as I have said this is only my humble opinion.

Mark...

ariel · 3rd December 2005, 12:29 AM

I was rather saddened by the twist of the original thread: it managed to degrade into accusations, venting of frustrations etc.
This should serve as a lesson to all of us: this Forum is for exchange of information about swords. Personal frustrations and scores should be vented and settled outside the Forum, ie through personal messages. There is no need to inflame everybody by airing one's personal laundry in public.
We forget how good we have here: we can say whatever we want (withing the boundaries of customary politeness), enjoy very little censorship and do not have to suffer from personal whims of some neurotic twit with a title of Grang Moderator.
Let's all calm down, take several very deep breaths and come to our senses.
E-bay is a nasty place, and we all got burned on more than one occasion. E-snipe is a sneaky tool and we all got hit by it. Both of them are legal; neither of them will go away and all of us shall continue to use them.
Just let us keep this Forum clean of all extraneous considerations. This is a lovely place to learn, to teach and just to argue. I would hate to see people leave and the Forum wither.

erlikhan · 3rd December 2005, 12:38 AM

Lol. I didnt know that my usual strategy in ebay since the first day of my membership had a special name as" sniping" and is worth of discussing many pages over . Personally I have never acted in any way else than "sniping" as it is the most logical way to win something and to win at a price level which you will not regret later. Not only because of the ambush soul in it, also because if you bid to your maximum in advance, it will only provacate others to bid more and more over their plannings with the psychology of ambition,causing you to loose the item completely or to buy it much more expensive than you could. That is nothing about blaming, getting hurt or showing "mercy" to a friend who has bidded in advance. He or anybody else simply shouldnt bid so according to my logic.

Lew · 3rd December 2005, 12:54 AM

HI GUYS

I HAVE BEEN SNIPED A COUPLE OF TIMES AND AFTER THE FIRST TIME I THOUGHT I AND THE OTHER FORMITE HAD A MEETING OF THE MINDS BUT THEN I WAS SNIPED AGAIN BY THE SAME FORUM MEMBER. WELL AFTER THAT THE GLOVES CAME OFF. THERE ARE ONLY TWO OR THREE MEMBERS THAT I AM FRIENDS WITH THAT OUT OF COURTESY WE DO NOT BID ONCE WE SEE WHO HAS BID FIRST OR WE EMAIL EACH OTHER TO SEE IF THEY ARE TRULY INTERESTED IN THE ITEM. EVERYONE ELSE IS FAIR GAME ON EBAY. I HEARD THAT THIS SWORD WHICH PERSONALLY DOES NOTHING FOR ME IS SOME TYPE OF RARE STYLE SWORD WHICH ONLY PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS PRACTIONERS WOULD COVET. THE FORMITE THAT WON THE BID MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN IT'S REAL VALUE? SO WHEN HE POSTED IT HE MAY HAVE HAD DONE SO WITH GOOD INTENTIONS AND NOT TO SAY I WON IT AND HEAR IT IS IN YOUR FACE. JUST REMEMBER IT'S ONLY A SWORD WOOD AND METAL AND I'M SURE DOWN THE ROAD THERE WILL BE ANOTHER ONE THAT COMES ALONG. LIFE IS JUST TOO SHORT AND COMPLICATED TO GET SO ANGRY ABOUT LOSING AN ITEM ON EBAY.

REGARDS TO ALL

LEW

Rick · 3rd December 2005, 01:21 AM

And be REAL careful with the sniping software !
NEVER mistakenly put a comma where a decimal point should be .

Take it from one who has ........

Addendum :
Yes , I won the sword .
Who's ever going to beat a 150,000 dollar bid .

nechesh · 3rd December 2005, 03:29 AM

LOL!

VANDOO · 3rd December 2005, 04:51 AM

LOL ! I AM GLAD TO FIND I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO GOT, GOT BY THE DEADLY COMMA

THAT CAN BE A VERY EXPENSIVE TYPO AND EASY TO DO, NOW I ALWAYS TAKE MY TIME AND LOOK CLOSELY AT MY BID BEFORE ENTERING IT. I WAS LUCKY THE TIME I DID IT BEFORE BUT DON'T WANT TO PUSH MY LUCK ESPECIALLY WITH SOME OF THE PRICES THINGS CAN BRING ON EBAY THESE DAYS.

Rick · 3rd December 2005, 05:07 AM

I just KNEW there had to be someone else ......... !

Battara · 3rd December 2005, 06:12 AM

Personally, I wear a helmet how when I bid on ebay because of the numerous times I get my brains beaten out.

I sometimes pass (or pass out

) when I see a fellow formite bidding on something I thought about. At the same time, I undestand the desire to acquire toys, but there is much more to life than this. One time there was this wonderful dha with wonderful silver work, but alas Mark Bowditch got it, and you know, it may sting a little, but that's ok because there is more to life than this (a theme?). Besides, I guess I'd rather he get it than some lumax who would use it for cutting watermelons.

I look at it like this, if God wants me to have something, I'll get, if not, then God has something better in store for me.

I have been able to get some things that I could not afford, as one or two of you know. So I guess that God wanted Mark to get that dha.

Since then, I have been able to get some other great toys.

Again - toys .

On the matter of different names used, I use a different name on eBay before I came to this forum - seeker88 - not as catchy as Battara, but I was a young'in then.

Robert · 3rd December 2005, 06:27 AM

Battara,
What you just posted is exactly what I wanted to say but was unsure of how top phrase it.

Oh, by the way I've decided to stay.

And Rick, I've done the same when typing in a bid and the item went for about double of what really I wanted to pay for it.

Great thread Nechesh.

Robert

John · 3rd December 2005, 07:53 AM

Although I've bidded on ebay just a negligible few times, I've peeked to see how some of the seasoned players play and learn their strategy; they always snipe. I had a similar experience as Jose. Was eyeing on a keris (one that I quite wanted) for a number of days and the auction was to end at the early hours of the morning; woke up about an hour earlier to prepare for the snipe but lo, Kai Wee just placed a bid there and I supposed prior to going to bed. Momentarily felt the sting a little and decided not to snipe. I wouldn't have felt bad if I did but on the other hand I knew I was facing a very tough competitor.

As a few have surmised that's the reality of the life but on this instance I was glad it went to a gentleman (and for a steal) who actually did earlier proposed on a strategy of bidding should buddies get interested on a similar item...

I hope all gentlemen will stay, emotions do get a little better of us at rare occasion like this but the track records are clear, most (except an odd alec) are great fellas and have contributed much eg Zelbone, Mabagani, Laban etc...

Been enjoying reading your posts and the light heartedness here and there...

Battara · 3rd December 2005, 12:55 PM

Glad you're sticking around Robert. You bring up some good questions, observations, and threads for comment.

John....I understand.

Jeff D · 3rd December 2005, 05:50 PM

I have bid on a couple items on e-bay but I have never won any. I have never sold anything there. I personally think that by my bidding on an item, in no way is equivalent to me peeing on the item marking it as my territory. This is a free market, the seller deserves the going rate.
Robert, if you ever snipe me please feel free to post it, I will be very happy to tell you why I was bidding on it.

All the Best
Jeff

VANDOO · 3rd December 2005, 09:17 PM

I JUST FINISHED BIDDING IN A ONLINE AUCTION I BID ON 12 ITEMS AND GOT ONE BUT NO WORRIES I GOT THE ONE I WANTED MOST.
IT WAS KIND OF FUNNY HERE WERE THE ALPHA MALES TEARING AT THE CARCAS, I WAS THE JACKAL LURKING OUT SIDE I MADE SEVERAL TRYS AT GETTING A MORSEL FROM THE BIG BOYS AND WAS RAN OFF. BUT FINALLY I WAS ABLE TO SNEAK IN FAST AND ESCAPE WITH A LITTLE BITE.

I WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND ONE OF THE BIG ARMS AUCTIONS SOMEDAY I BET IT IS A REAL HOOT WATCHING THE TOP DEALERS SLUG IT OUT WITH THEIR GAME FACES ON. JUDGING FROM THE SPEED AND NUMBER OF BIDS ON SOME ITEMS ON THE NET IT WAS FAST AND FURIOUS.

Spunjer · 4th December 2005, 05:31 PM

oh, and another thing (since we're on this subject):

lol @ some of the members offering the seller to buy the item before the auction is over. tsk tsk

I. MUST. HAVE. THE. SWORD....

Rick · 4th December 2005, 09:08 PM

Life is way too short ; and we all as humans have many more important things to do before we shuffle off the stage .

punal · 5th December 2005, 11:36 PM

Let me butt in too! though I'm just a new bees compare to you guys.
Moro Kris swords interest me the most and I started collecting them 6 months ago. Not an easy gig! I found that ebay was the most convenient place to buy them, they're not cheap, but compare most antique sword dealers that had contacted, I prefer ebay. Beware though, you got'ta be willing to break your piggy bank opened because this peices cost an arm and a leg. Yes, years back, you could probably buy a museum grade sword for $100-200? but that was then.

I might be one of those guys a few are refering to, offering sellers to close their listing early! but why not! people are intittled to buy what they want as long as they can afford it! and that what's ebay's for! bid any amount
you want as long as you can sustained it! I understand that we are brothers in this field alright, but isn't it, true brothers gives way! besides, we are all in the midst of a hunt, what I'm trying to say is, I rather have one of our forum brothers get the things that I like but can not afford, and then share it us/me later on...

Ebay's world is not first come first serve basis! it will not waive because you only have this much! but it will sell to someone who wants it more. . . sorry guys if I snaged the swords you've been eyeing on, can't help it, I like it to...
but may be next time I'll yield!

Rick · 6th December 2005, 02:41 AM

In my view it is unethical to try to purchase an item listed for auction on ebay privately .
I believe eBay frowns upon it also .

By doing this you subvert the entire process .

BluErf · 6th December 2005, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

Was eyeing on a keris (one that I quite wanted) for a number of days and the auction was to end at the early hours of the morning; woke up about an hour earlier to prepare for the snipe but lo, Kai Wee just placed a bid there and I supposed prior to going to bed. Momentarily felt the sting a little and decided not to snipe. I wouldn't have felt bad if I did but on the other hand I knew I was facing a very tough competitor.

I just came back from my wisdom tooth extraction surgery. The anasthesia is beginning to wear off and the pain is starting to creep in...

Haven't been really reading this post, but I can empathize with the strong emotions felt when one sees someone familiar throwing in a bid on an item that has been eyed for days. But there's no easy resolution to such a situation and it also depends on how badly the person wants the item. Very sorry if I have sniped things that any of the fellow forumnites had wanted. Sometimes, I don't know which ebay ID is who in the forum, really.

*Ouch* pain... pain...

2nd December 2005, 03:00 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Snipers Well Lee closed the thread i intended to post this on and he might close this one too, but i wanted to have a say on this subject of sniping and Andrew did suggest to start a new thread on it so here goes: This is really beginning to take on an air of absurdity. Robert, i would hate to see you leave the forum over such ridiculousness. From my own point, i have never sniped anyone from this forum on an eBay auction as far as i know. I have, however, been sniped by at least one very well respected member. SO WHAT! They are just swords guys, and there are more examples out there. There have always been far more people willing to kill each other with the bloody things then there are those like ourselves who are passionate about collecting them, so they will keep popping up. Ebay offers a feature which allows a bidder to place his highest bid and keep it hidden from other bidders. It only applies as much as is necessary to win the auction. Whether someone is bidding all along or bids at the last minute, if you are honest with yourself about the highest price you are willing to pay for something, what does it really matter when someone outbids you? From the evidence it appears that Laban Tayo made his highest bid as the very first bid on the item and then sat back and watched people try to outbid him. Given this stategy i assume you made that first bid your highest bid. But i guess you didn't watch closely enough because apparently someone else outbid you a full FOUR hours before Robert made his bid. So how exactly did he "snipe" you? Ebay bidding is a game of sorts. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. So when you lose the game, is it fair to say, in essence, "knowledge about these things is MY football, so i'm just going to take my ball and go home!". C'mon guys, get real. This idea of withholding knowledge is very disturbing to me. Like Lee and i am sure others, i was very disheartened to see the way the thread went on this subject. We are suppose to ALL be brothers here in the pursuit of knowledge.

2nd December 2005, 05:56 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	EBAY CAN BE VERY DEPRESSING IF YOU GET HAMMERED OVER AND OVER AND SEE PRICES PUSHED UP BEYOND YOUR ABILITY TO PAY. YOU KNOW YOU HAVE HAD IT WHEN DEALERS CAN ALWAYS OUTBID YOU AND THEN RESELL AT A LARGE PROFIT. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GIVE UP COLLECTING SOMETHING YOU HAVE BEEN COLLECTING FOR MANY YEARS BUT I CAN'T COMPLAIN AS I HAVE MY SHARE IN MYCOLLECTION ITS JUST HARD TO STOP. IT IS STRANGE, BUT GOING TO A GUN SHOW AND FINDING THE ITEMS YOU WANT PRICED OUT OF YOUR RANGE ISN'T AS FRUSTRATEING AS WATCHING EVERYTHING CLIMB RAPIDLY OUT OF SIGHT ON EBAY. I ALSO OCCASIONALY DON'T BID ON SOMETHING BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN BEATEN UP TOO MUCH AND SEE IT GO FOR A VERY GOOD PRICE FOR A CHANGE WHICH JUST PUTS SALT IN THE WOUNDS. FORTUNATELY I COLLECT OTHER THINGS AND CAN CONCENTRATE ON THEM, I RECENTLY CONTACTED A SELLER ABOUT A AUCTION ON EBAY THAT HAD WENT WITHOUT A BID 3 LISTINGS AND MADE A OFFER. I WAS TOLD THAT I WAS NOT A COLLECTOR AS I SHOULD BID WHATEVER IT TOOK TO GET WHAT I WANTED ON EBAY, FORTUNATELY I AM NOT THAT FAR GONE WITH THE COLLECTOR MALADY. EBAY IS WHAT IT IS AND ITS TWO MAIN TRUTHS ARE "LET THE BUYER BEWARE" AND "YOU MAKES YOUR BID AND YOU TAKES YOUR CHANCES" I DON'T THINK IT IS NECESSARY TO CONTACT A FELLOW FORUM MEMBER YOU RECOGNISE WHEN BIDDING UNLESS YOU WANT TO DO SO OUT OF COURTESY. A DEALER IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF LETTING THE COLLECTOR OUT BID HIM WHEN HE CAN BID MORE AND TURN A PROFIT SO THERE IS NO REASON TO GET MAD IF ONE DOES "JUST HOPE THEY AND THE OTHER COLLECTORS DON'T SEE IT" EBAY IS NOT A FRIENDLY PLACE IT IS MORE LIKE A STOCK EXCHANGE DOG EAT DOG, SO IT IS NOT FOR THE WEAK HEARTED. I BACK OFF A LOT AND DON'T ACTIVELY SEARCH MORO OR PHILIPPINE ANYMORE AS THERE HASN'T BEEN A GOOD SCORE IN A VERY LONG TIME FOR ME. WHEN I JUST CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT AND IT ISN'T FUN I JUST STOP GOING TO EBAY FOR A WHILE AND REGROUP AND THEN PERHAPS JUMP BACK INTO THE FRAY AGAIN LATER. ONE BIG PROBLEM IN MY AREA IS THAT ALL THE FLEA MARKETS,ANTIQUE STORES, ESTATE SALES,GARAGE SALES ARE SCOURED AND EVERYTHING GOES TO EBAY AND VERY LITTLE SHOWS UP AT LOCAL GUN SHOWS EITHER, SO MY OLD WAY OF COLLECTING NO LONGER WORKS. "SUCH IS LIFE" END OF RANT Last edited by VANDOO; 2nd December 2005 at 06:17 PM.

2nd December 2005, 07:00 PM	#6
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	There's the $9.99 bargain first come first serve strategy of tagging an item with a forum name with a minimal bid, hoping other members will pass and end up not having to paying too much, which evidently is risky when others don't bother to check who's bidding or when new collectors start sniping everything in sight with overbids. If a group of collectors all get sniped by the same person, what's the proper reaction when the items get paraded in a forum? Does the snipee lay down or does snoopie get to bark foul when the football is crapped on? It hit the fan but to my surprise knowledge was not withheld. Like a game it was fun to watch. Beware, I'll stalk and snipe like the rest with top dollar in hand...if an item is extraordinary or if I need a fix from the dreaded bug. lolz Last edited by MABAGANI; 2nd December 2005 at 07:55 PM.

2nd December 2005, 07:12 PM	#8
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Come to your senses, Gentlemen The accusations and all of this discussions are just ridiculous. Let me remind you that Ebay is an AUCTION, and on the AUCTIONS usually you should bid a higher prices to win the game. Passing by because you see the familiar name is a) act of great mercy b) or pure naivety. We've got over 500 members here and personally I don't feel like checking the whole list before starting to bid, just in case not to "offend" someone, even well known here and with great knowledge. Sitting on the live auctions, and seeing familiar faces I wouldn't hide in the corner pretending I'm not existing! Dissapointing is an usual feeling when you loose a fight, but there is honourable way of loosing the games. And if you are so blind because of material and worldly things think about your humanum. I hope Robert won't quit and won't judge this forum because of such stupid incident, and I hope his adversaries will show some class and stop arguing! Best regards!

3rd December 2005, 12:54 AM	#15
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	HI GUYS I HAVE BEEN SNIPED A COUPLE OF TIMES AND AFTER THE FIRST TIME I THOUGHT I AND THE OTHER FORMITE HAD A MEETING OF THE MINDS BUT THEN I WAS SNIPED AGAIN BY THE SAME FORUM MEMBER. WELL AFTER THAT THE GLOVES CAME OFF. THERE ARE ONLY TWO OR THREE MEMBERS THAT I AM FRIENDS WITH THAT OUT OF COURTESY WE DO NOT BID ONCE WE SEE WHO HAS BID FIRST OR WE EMAIL EACH OTHER TO SEE IF THEY ARE TRULY INTERESTED IN THE ITEM. EVERYONE ELSE IS FAIR GAME ON EBAY. I HEARD THAT THIS SWORD WHICH PERSONALLY DOES NOTHING FOR ME IS SOME TYPE OF RARE STYLE SWORD WHICH ONLY PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS PRACTIONERS WOULD COVET. THE FORMITE THAT WON THE BID MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN IT'S REAL VALUE? SO WHEN HE POSTED IT HE MAY HAVE HAD DONE SO WITH GOOD INTENTIONS AND NOT TO SAY I WON IT AND HEAR IT IS IN YOUR FACE. JUST REMEMBER IT'S ONLY A SWORD WOOD AND METAL AND I'M SURE DOWN THE ROAD THERE WILL BE ANOTHER ONE THAT COMES ALONG. LIFE IS JUST TOO SHORT AND COMPLICATED TO GET SO ANGRY ABOUT LOSING AN ITEM ON EBAY. REGARDS TO ALL LEW Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 3rd December 2005 at 01:46 AM.

2nd December 2005, 04:06 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Let's please put this one to rest. If anyone wants to continue discussing this particular situation, feel free to do so via PM or email. Thread closed.

2nd December 2005, 04:18 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Very well said Nechesh. Sadly, the very design of ebay leaves sniping as the most effective way of winning an item and winning it at the best possible price. The best strategy is to come in as late as you can, indeed so late that you will not have time to rebid, pre-emptively with your top offer. Just as the Moderators team has found it necessary, for legal concerns, to restrict all discussions of open auctions, I would also like to remind members that 'ringing' an auction is a crime in many jurisdictions. The term 'ring,' I gather, derives from a group of dealers who decided which among them would bid upon which items in poorly attended rural auctions insuring a low price for the seller, and later holding a second private auction in the pub. But the laws on auction 'rings' are often more broadly written to prohibit any sort of collusion or conspiracy on bidding. I also have largely come to stay away from the auction marketplace and to buy from dealers, largely for the prospect of examining an item closely before purchase or being able to return it if it disappoints. If I do venture into ebay, I will do so as a sniper. As per discussions years ago in the forums, if I recognize an acquaintence or fellow forum member as the leading bidder, I will limit my actions to either 1. Not bidding and not consulting with anyone about this decision or 2. Advising the acquaintence to expect me to snipe, giving them the option to raise their maximum.

2nd December 2005, 05:30 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Having inadvertently posted in a closed thread, I hesitatingly re-open the thread, as it was not my intention to 'have the last word.' If you choose to contine with this thread, please do so in general, non-personal philosophical terms. I have been sniped and the first time it happened to me at the hands of someone I knew I was pretty upset and I stayed that way for a while. In the end, I have realized that sniping is just part of the whole nasty brute-force-of-money auction world, and a reality that I had to accept if I wanted to participate that growing part of the marketplace.

2nd December 2005, 07:11 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I actually recognize only a handful of e-bay bidders as forum members, because they use different handles in the two places. That makes it hard to recognize a fellow forumite as a bidder and give them room on an auction even if you want to.

2nd December 2005, 07:58 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thats about it. Well said wolviex . Tim

2nd December 2005, 10:31 PM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	DON'T GET TRIGGER HAPPY ANDREW OFTEN VENTING ONES FRUSTRATIONS IS A GOOD THING THE GOOD THING HERE IS THAT IT IS NOT INTERFERING WITH A TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE MANIA TO COLLECT AND HATE TO LOSE SOMETHING WE WANTED BADLY IN THE LAST SECOND. THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT WORKS ON EBAY AND AT A ACTUAL AUCTION. THE COMPETICIAN HAS GOTTEN HOTTER AND THERE ARE NEW COLLECTORS WITH CASH IN HAND WANTING IN THE GAME AT ANY PRICE. THEY ARE DRIVEN LIKE WE ARE AND MAY GO ON A SPENDING BINGE WHEN THEY FIRST GET INTERESTED AND START LEARNING. I HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME BECAUSE WHAT I CONSIDER THE REASONABLE PRICE OF A ITEM IS WAY OUT OF DATE AND TO PAY MORE THAN I THINK IT IS WORTH MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A SUCKER AND THERE IS NO ENJOYMENT IN THAT. IF I RUN ACROSS SOMETHING I BID AND AM ON SOMEWHAT OF A BIDDING BENGE AT PRESENT BUT FORTUNATELY THE OTHER BIDDERS ARE SAVING ME FROM MYSELF. IF I WON EVERYTHING I BID ON I WOULD HAVE TO START HIDEING FROM THE BILL COLLECTORS AND TAX MAN SO THANKS GUYS BUT OF COURSE I STILL DON'T LIKE LOSEING I SURE WOULDN'T THROW AWAY A VALUABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION OR STOP SHAREING INFORMATION BECAUSE I WAS MAD THAT I LOST SOME ITEMS. THIS FORUM IS WORTH MORE THAN ANY MERE ITEM!

3rd December 2005, 12:02 AM	#12
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	I feel in my own opinion that for me at least sniping gives me a better chance to win( I really don't have a fortune ). I really am a little miser and have to get as far as possible on my minimal funding. Even when sniping I have been outsniped. I take a sort of 'All is fare in love and war' idea to Ebay. But as I have said this is only my humble opinion. Mark...

3rd December 2005, 12:29 AM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I was rather saddened by the twist of the original thread: it managed to degrade into accusations, venting of frustrations etc. This should serve as a lesson to all of us: this Forum is for exchange of information about swords. Personal frustrations and scores should be vented and settled outside the Forum, ie through personal messages. There is no need to inflame everybody by airing one's personal laundry in public. We forget how good we have here: we can say whatever we want (withing the boundaries of customary politeness), enjoy very little censorship and do not have to suffer from personal whims of some neurotic twit with a title of Grang Moderator. Let's all calm down, take several very deep breaths and come to our senses. E-bay is a nasty place, and we all got burned on more than one occasion. E-snipe is a sneaky tool and we all got hit by it. Both of them are legal; neither of them will go away and all of us shall continue to use them. Just let us keep this Forum clean of all extraneous considerations. This is a lovely place to learn, to teach and just to argue. I would hate to see people leave and the Forum wither.

3rd December 2005, 12:38 AM	#14
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Lol. I didnt know that my usual strategy in ebay since the first day of my membership had a special name as" sniping" and is worth of discussing many pages over . Personally I have never acted in any way else than "sniping" as it is the most logical way to win something and to win at a price level which you will not regret later. Not only because of the ambush soul in it, also because if you bid to your maximum in advance, it will only provacate others to bid more and more over their plannings with the psychology of ambition,causing you to loose the item completely or to buy it much more expensive than you could. That is nothing about blaming, getting hurt or showing "mercy" to a friend who has bidded in advance. He or anybody else simply shouldnt bid so according to my logic.

3rd December 2005, 01:21 AM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	And be REAL careful with the sniping software ! NEVER mistakenly put a comma where a decimal point should be . Take it from one who has ........ Addendum : Yes , I won the sword . Who's ever going to beat a 150,000 dollar bid . Last edited by Rick; 3rd December 2005 at 01:44 AM.

3rd December 2005, 03:29 AM	#17
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	LOL!

3rd December 2005, 04:51 AM	#18
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	LOL ! I AM GLAD TO FIND I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO GOT, GOT BY THE DEADLY COMMA THAT CAN BE A VERY EXPENSIVE TYPO AND EASY TO DO, NOW I ALWAYS TAKE MY TIME AND LOOK CLOSELY AT MY BID BEFORE ENTERING IT. I WAS LUCKY THE TIME I DID IT BEFORE BUT DON'T WANT TO PUSH MY LUCK ESPECIALLY WITH SOME OF THE PRICES THINGS CAN BRING ON EBAY THESE DAYS.

3rd December 2005, 05:07 AM	#19
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	VANDOO I just KNEW there had to be someone else ......... !

3rd December 2005, 06:12 AM	#20
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Personally, I wear a helmet how when I bid on ebay because of the numerous times I get my brains beaten out. I sometimes pass (or pass out ) when I see a fellow formite bidding on something I thought about. At the same time, I undestand the desire to acquire toys, but there is much more to life than this. One time there was this wonderful dha with wonderful silver work, but alas Mark Bowditch got it, and you know, it may sting a little, but that's ok because there is more to life than this (a theme?). Besides, I guess I'd rather he get it than some lumax who would use it for cutting watermelons. I look at it like this, if God wants me to have something, I'll get, if not, then God has something better in store for me. I have been able to get some things that I could not afford, as one or two of you know. So I guess that God wanted Mark to get that dha. Since then, I have been able to get some other great toys. Again - toys . On the matter of different names used, I use a different name on eBay before I came to this forum - seeker88 - not as catchy as Battara, but I was a young'in then.

3rd December 2005, 06:27 AM	#21
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Battara, What you just posted is exactly what I wanted to say but was unsure of how top phrase it. Oh, by the way I've decided to stay. And Rick, I've done the same when typing in a bid and the item went for about double of what really I wanted to pay for it. Great thread Nechesh. Robert

3rd December 2005, 07:53 AM	#22
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Although I've bidded on ebay just a negligible few times, I've peeked to see how some of the seasoned players play and learn their strategy; they always snipe. I had a similar experience as Jose. Was eyeing on a keris (one that I quite wanted) for a number of days and the auction was to end at the early hours of the morning; woke up about an hour earlier to prepare for the snipe but lo, Kai Wee just placed a bid there and I supposed prior to going to bed. Momentarily felt the sting a little and decided not to snipe. I wouldn't have felt bad if I did but on the other hand I knew I was facing a very tough competitor. As a few have surmised that's the reality of the life but on this instance I was glad it went to a gentleman (and for a steal) who actually did earlier proposed on a strategy of bidding should buddies get interested on a similar item... I hope all gentlemen will stay, emotions do get a little better of us at rare occasion like this but the track records are clear, most (except an odd alec) are great fellas and have contributed much eg Zelbone, Mabagani, Laban etc... Been enjoying reading your posts and the light heartedness here and there...

3rd December 2005, 12:55 PM	#23
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Glad you're sticking around Robert. You bring up some good questions, observations, and threads for comment. John....I understand.

3rd December 2005, 05:50 PM	#24
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	I have bid on a couple items on e-bay but I have never won any. I have never sold anything there. I personally think that by my bidding on an item, in no way is equivalent to me peeing on the item marking it as my territory. This is a free market, the seller deserves the going rate. Robert, if you ever snipe me please feel free to post it, I will be very happy to tell you why I was bidding on it. All the Best Jeff

3rd December 2005, 09:17 PM	#25
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I JUST FINISHED BIDDING IN A ONLINE AUCTION I BID ON 12 ITEMS AND GOT ONE BUT NO WORRIES I GOT THE ONE I WANTED MOST. IT WAS KIND OF FUNNY HERE WERE THE ALPHA MALES TEARING AT THE CARCAS, I WAS THE JACKAL LURKING OUT SIDE I MADE SEVERAL TRYS AT GETTING A MORSEL FROM THE BIG BOYS AND WAS RAN OFF. BUT FINALLY I WAS ABLE TO SNEAK IN FAST AND ESCAPE WITH A LITTLE BITE. I WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND ONE OF THE BIG ARMS AUCTIONS SOMEDAY I BET IT IS A REAL HOOT WATCHING THE TOP DEALERS SLUG IT OUT WITH THEIR GAME FACES ON. JUDGING FROM THE SPEED AND NUMBER OF BIDS ON SOME ITEMS ON THE NET IT WAS FAST AND FURIOUS.

4th December 2005, 05:31 PM	#26
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	oh, and another thing (since we're on this subject): lol @ some of the members offering the seller to buy the item before the auction is over. tsk tsk I. MUST. HAVE. THE. SWORD....

4th December 2005, 09:08 PM	#27
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Life is way too short ; and we all as humans have many more important things to do before we shuffle off the stage .

5th December 2005, 11:36 PM	#28
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	Let me butt in too! though I'm just a new bees compare to you guys. Moro Kris swords interest me the most and I started collecting them 6 months ago. Not an easy gig! I found that ebay was the most convenient place to buy them, they're not cheap, but compare most antique sword dealers that had contacted, I prefer ebay. Beware though, you got'ta be willing to break your piggy bank opened because this peices cost an arm and a leg. Yes, years back, you could probably buy a museum grade sword for $100-200? but that was then. I might be one of those guys a few are refering to, offering sellers to close their listing early! but why not! people are intittled to buy what they want as long as they can afford it! and that what's ebay's for! bid any amount you want as long as you can sustained it! I understand that we are brothers in this field alright, but isn't it, true brothers gives way! besides, we are all in the midst of a hunt, what I'm trying to say is, I rather have one of our forum brothers get the things that I like but can not afford, and then share it us/me later on... Ebay's world is not first come first serve basis! it will not waive because you only have this much! but it will sell to someone who wants it more. . . sorry guys if I snaged the swords you've been eyeing on, can't help it, I like it to... but may be next time I'll yield!

6th December 2005, 02:41 AM	#29
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	In my view it is unethical to try to purchase an item listed for auction on ebay privately . I believe eBay frowns upon it also . By doing this you subvert the entire process . Last edited by Rick; 6th December 2005 at 04:02 AM.