S-E Asian daggers?

Dominique · 14th October 2007, 12:56 PM

Can anyone help me identify these daggers?

Thanks

ariel · 14th October 2007, 03:54 PM

How big are they?

Dominique · 14th October 2007, 05:21 PM

The top one is 35cm total, blade 15cm
The other ones range between 52 to 42cm total, blade 26 to 21cm

A. G. Maisey · 14th October 2007, 11:34 PM

What is the blade grind?

Is it a chisel grind, or the usual symmetrical grind found in European blades?

The three bottom ones look like Javanese pangot, but they are too large . The long steel ferrule seems to indicate that the blade was used to exert considerable force. My guess is that they are carpenters knives that were used for a similar purpose to that for which Europeans used a draw knife, but where Europeans drew the blade to themselves, the these knives were used to push away, and possibly the wood was drawn.
If it is a chisel grind it would indicate that the intended use was to be able to remove very thin shavings, if it is not a chisel grind, the intended use would be for roughing work out.

This is all conjecture, but the form is definitely the same as the small knives used by carpenters and woodworkers in Jawa and Bali today. These modern knives would typically be about 11cm blade, and about 26cm overall.

Mark · 15th October 2007, 04:12 PM

We've lost the picture (at least I can't see it).

Dominique · 16th October 2007, 08:39 AM

Marc,
The picture is still there or can be seen at http://old.blades.free.fr/other_oriental/cb2.jpg

Alan,
I is not chisel grind. If it was a wood carver tool, would it have a sheath?

Ian · 16th October 2007, 09:01 PM

Hi Dominique:

Interesting set of knives. Thanks for posting them.

The bottom three seem to be a matching set of differing lengths, which strongly suggests a set of tools. They are sturdy and well made, as Alan has noted, and I too think they are wood working/carving tools. I do not recognize which culture they may be from, but SE Asia is a good bet IMO.

Ian.

A. G. Maisey · 17th October 2007, 12:11 AM

Yes, in Jawa and Bali sharp wood working tools are often kept in covers.

Over the years I have had a number of tukang wrongko do work for me, and most of them invariably kept some of their carving knives in wooden sheaths, or covers. In fact, I do the same with a couple of my bench knives---its only common sense:- these things are sharp, and accidentally brushing against the blade can cause a nasty cut.

The three bottom knives I am fairly comfortably with thinking of as tools of some sort, but the top knife seems markedly different in a number of ways. I do not know what this may be.

14th October 2007, 12:56 PM	#1
Dominique Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Paris Posts: 21	S-E Asian daggers? Can anyone help me identify these daggers? Thanks

14th October 2007, 11:34 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	What is the blade grind? Is it a chisel grind, or the usual symmetrical grind found in European blades? The three bottom ones look like Javanese pangot, but they are too large . The long steel ferrule seems to indicate that the blade was used to exert considerable force. My guess is that they are carpenters knives that were used for a similar purpose to that for which Europeans used a draw knife, but where Europeans drew the blade to themselves, the these knives were used to push away, and possibly the wood was drawn. If it is a chisel grind it would indicate that the intended use was to be able to remove very thin shavings, if it is not a chisel grind, the intended use would be for roughing work out. This is all conjecture, but the form is definitely the same as the small knives used by carpenters and woodworkers in Jawa and Bali today. These modern knives would typically be about 11cm blade, and about 26cm overall. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 15th October 2007 at 12:03 AM.

14th October 2007, 03:54 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	How big are they?

14th October 2007, 05:21 PM	#3
Dominique Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Paris Posts: 21	The top one is 35cm total, blade 15cm The other ones range between 52 to 42cm total, blade 26 to 21cm

15th October 2007, 04:12 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	We've lost the picture (at least I can't see it).

16th October 2007, 08:39 AM	#6
Dominique Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Paris Posts: 21	Marc, The picture is still there or can be seen at http://old.blades.free.fr/other_oriental/cb2.jpg Alan, I is not chisel grind. If it was a wood carver tool, would it have a sheath?

16th October 2007, 09:01 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Dominique: Interesting set of knives. Thanks for posting them. The bottom three seem to be a matching set of differing lengths, which strongly suggests a set of tools. They are sturdy and well made, as Alan has noted, and I too think they are wood working/carving tools. I do not recognize which culture they may be from, but SE Asia is a good bet IMO. Ian.

17th October 2007, 12:11 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Yes, in Jawa and Bali sharp wood working tools are often kept in covers. Over the years I have had a number of tukang wrongko do work for me, and most of them invariably kept some of their carving knives in wooden sheaths, or covers. In fact, I do the same with a couple of my bench knives---its only common sense:- these things are sharp, and accidentally brushing against the blade can cause a nasty cut. The three bottom knives I am fairly comfortably with thinking of as tools of some sort, but the top knife seems markedly different in a number of ways. I do not know what this may be.