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#1 |
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rhineland
Posts: 364
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dear all,
I need to have your opinions on this piece concerning authenticity. the dimensions are: total length 33 cm, pommel across 6 cm, cross guard 19 cm long. the cross guard is slightly decorated at its ends. Would be great if you can give me some ideas! thanks and best regards andreas |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chino, CA.
Posts: 217
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I notice that the fuller extends a bit down onto the tang. The grain is tight, fine and wave like. The Tang is tapered enough to end in being peened. Can you get a picture of the end of the pommel?
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 396
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Hi Andreas,
Im sure this is an Original, it looks that it has been chemically cleaned before and now it has rusted again. kind regards Ulfberth |
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#4 |
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Thanks for the infos! Sounds good.
Will post images of the pommel the next days. Any opinion on the age and geographical classification of the sword? Best regards Andreas |
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#5 |
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Location: Chino, CA.
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It seems to be (from whats left of it) very inline with the dimensions, form and features of an arming sword. And if it were an arming sword and European (that it could be is speculative). You might want to use Oakshott typology to help classify it. I may be wrong but that looks like a type H pommel and type 11 guard. I don't think the blade itself could be fairly categorized.
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 182
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#7 |
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Location: Rhineland
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thanks for the replies, stekemest and helleri. will have some investigation in this direction.
here are some pics of the end of the pommel. the little pin / rivet is missing, probably broken off or rusted away. best regards andreas Last edited by AHorsa; 19th July 2016 at 08:03 AM. |
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#8 |
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Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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The new pictures convince me it is an original. Congratulations.
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#9 |
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Location: Rhineland
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Dear all,
after this sword fragment did find its way back to me yesterday, I´d love to find out more about its age and geographic background. Any opinions warmly appreciated. To complete the dimensions: The blade is 43mm wide. Kind regards Andreas Last edited by AHorsa; 22nd December 2022 at 09:27 PM. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario
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The break in the blade appears to have been done under stress and not from corrosion, battle damage? How will you display it, in a block of clear plexiglass or driftwood or? I find the partial broken blade interesting.
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#11 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Hi Andreas,
The typology of your sword (type H/I disk pommel, type 2 cross) is very similar to a family with some famous members, like the swords from the River Witham and Whittlesea Mere, which have elaborate inscriptions. Examples are widely scattered around Europe, and I would guess their age overall as around 1200-1250. While looking in my files for some examples to share, I think I have actually stumbled upon your sword itself! It was found in Slovakia, in 1971. I will copy below the description published in Aleksic's Swords from Southeastern Europe. Notice that the length corresponds to your measurement. More information and the illustration are in a recent thesis, Chladné zbrane 10. – 16. storočia pochádzajúce z rieky Váh, by Michal Labuda. 54. Dead backwater of r. Váh, site Pasínek, near Šoporňa, western Slovakia, chance find. Type: I, ?, 2. L= 33.4*; BL= 15.7*; HL= 18.2; CL= 18.7; BW= 4.5; PH= 5.5; PW= 6; TL= 11.5. Dat.: around 2/2 XIII – beg.of XIV c. Lit.: Katkin 1996, 106. Best regards, Mark |
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#12 | |
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Location: Rhineland
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Woooooow Mark!! You are kiddding me. How cool is that! Thank you very much mate! @Will: Yes, it is definetely broken and not rusted away. I guess battle damaged. I was planning to put it on an acryl stand, but now thinking about putting it into a wooden frame on the wall. Best regards Andreas Last edited by AHorsa; 23rd December 2022 at 01:39 PM. |
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#13 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
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Nothing is better than having a publicly published picture from before the current plague of forgeries as provenance and to also know from where the example originated. Good work Reventlov! The irregular broken end is, as has been said before above, absolutely characteristic of a fracture from use.
Below is an image of another broken sword of similar age and form showing a similar fracture break. |
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#14 |
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A frame can work for this but you only see one side and becomes two dimensional. I like open display having three dimensions however the choice is yours and it will be great to see the results. I would remove the recent corrosion then coat the sword in a rust stabilizer that tends to darken the iron.
It makes for a pleasing finish. Iron and steel were valuable and I can only imagine it's rare to find a damaged sword. |
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#15 |
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You are welcome, and thank you Lee. Labuda's thesis can be downloaded here, there is a little discussion of the sword and the circumstances of its finding, but text is all in Slovakian:
https://is.muni.cz/th/aviae/ |
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#16 | |
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Location: Rhineland
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![]() The corrusion seems different on the images. It is old rust / patina, which was partly remvoved. There is no new rust, even if it appears so on the images. @ Lee: Thank you for your example. Can you tell what is written on the blade? Kind regards Andreas |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
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#18 | |
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I assume, that the fragment was,t cleaned in 1996, when Katkin did the drawin from #11. This would explain, why the detail of the quillon stepped in three parts wasn´t mentioned. I browsed many pictures of swords but couldn´t find an example with a similar parrier rod / quillons. Does anyone have an example of such? Thanks and kind regards Andreas |
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#19 |
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Here´s a picture of the sword with its acryl stand.
Kind regards Andreas |
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#20 |
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looks very good! some museums can take an example.
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#21 |
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Thank you, mate!
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#22 | |
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https://www.albion-swords.com/swords...spirations.htm PS. Display looks great! |
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#23 |
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Mark, thank you so much again!
Is there a date for the Romanian sword? Kind regards Andreas |
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#24 |
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I think the museum and publications have only dated it as 14th century. I would guess earlier in the century rather than later. Picture is from the article "Középkorikardok a Székely Nemzeti Múzeum gyűjteményeiben".
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#25 |
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#26 | |
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It looks a bit like a few swords found in Transylvania:
1 - inv. 2874 at the Muzeul Judeţean Mureş (sword nr. 4) https://www.medievistica.ro/texte/ar...alan.htm#_ftn8 2 - inv. 3221 at the Muzeul Banatului - TIMIȘOARA http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...113EC1A12E6EF7 (higher res. https://mnab.ro/wp-content/uploads/2...afia-nr.-2.jpg) 3 - inv. M 3876 Hamba sword http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu_en.a...B023C9CB1E1CF9 A more detailed description is here (page 95): https://www.academia.edu/10501840/Sp...iu_2007_ed_II_ 4 - inv. 238 at Muzeul Național Secuiesc - SFÂNTU GHEORGHE http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...DA7DE866F82BDE 5 - inv. 237 at Muzeul Național Secuiesc - SFÂNTU GHEORGHE http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...61DACF386539D6 Quote:
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#27 |
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Very interesting information. Thank you, Teisani!
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#28 |
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For an Albert Durer engraving with a similar hilt being carried by a "peasant", see post number 8 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=Albrecht in this thread of his works. I dated it to 1497, but I could have been off a few years (or the previous post in this thread references a different engraving).
Great sword, by the way! |
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#29 |
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Thank you very much for this interesting reference!!
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