Aceh Peurise Shields for comment

[Atlantia]

You're probobly sick of these threads of mine now, but at least it's making the forums busy over the weekend

Here are some Peurise shields I got.
I'm quite pleased with them. All apear to have good age and some patina.
All thoughts and comments welcome.


Here is the first. Heavy guage hammered bronze/brass with applied bosses.
35.5cm/14" diameter.

[Atlantia]

Heavy cast bronze, 30.5cm/12" diameter.

[Atlantia]

Small cast bronze buckler. 25cm, 9 3/4"

[Battara]

Nice. My favorite are the last two - more ornate.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Battara

Nice. My favorite are the last two - more ornate.

thank you, here's the last, a little buckler 22cm, 8 3/4"

[Sajen]

Nice shields. Here are some members (Willem, Maurice and Eric for example) who will be able to tell you more about them.

Regards,

Detlef

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Nice shields. Here are some members (Willem, Maurice and Eric for example) who will be able to tell you more about them.

Regards,

Detlef

Thanks Detlef.
I really like them, I've been looking for either some of these or Dhals to adorn my walls
I actually don't know too much about these. They are not as commonplace as Dhals, and I'm not sure which types are rarer or what would constitute a 'good' one.

Hopefully the other chaps will tell us more, Maurice are you still tonline tonight?

Best
Gene

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Thanks Detlef.
I really like them, I've been looking for either some of these or Dhals to adorn my walls
I actually don't know too much about these. They are not as commonplace as Dhals, and I'm not sure which types are rarer or what would constitute a 'good' one.

Hopefully the other chaps will tell us more, Maurice are you still tonline tonight?

Best
Gene

Hi Gene,

so far I know are the more plain ones like Maurice and Willem shown in this thread :http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=peurise
are the older ones and I know that they are a lot more expensive. I have one like you have and a wooden one but still look for examples like Maurice show in this thread. Special a wooven one I like to have one day.
Hope this was from some help, in the thread there are written some interesting informations as well.

Regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Hi Gene,

I only can tell you my own findings about these shields, when I did a little research for my own on these shields.

In the real old museumcollections, the brass shields from Aceh are all very plain, and besides the knobs, at the most a few rings or even nothing as decoration.
Also the brass Aceh shields within private collections with provenance of being pre 1900, are all plain and not that heavily decorated...

When you see these decorated brass shields in museumcollections, the earliest were collected in the first half of the 20th century (mostly the latter part of the first half even), or even the last half of the 20th century.
So some of these more decorated shields have nice old patina though.
A senior collector ones told me they are minangkabau shields...

Hope this is a bit usefull,
Maurice

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Gene,

so far I know are the more plain ones like Maurice and Willem shown in this thread :http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=peurise
are the older ones and I know that they are a lot more expensive. I have one like you have and a wooden one but still look for examples like Maurice show in this thread. Special a wooven one I like to have one day.
Hope this was from some help, in the thread there are written some interesting informations as well.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,

Thanks. I'll have to look for the other types to join mine now
They look great on the wall don't they?
Is your metal one small?
Would it be possible to see the back of the wooden one?
I'm happy with this first four to start the collection, there is a lot of variation even in them.

Thanks again
Gene

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Gene,

I only can tell you my own findings about these shields, when I did a little research for my own on these shields.

In the real old museumcollections, the brass shields from Aceh are all very plain, and besides the knobs, at the most a few rings or even nothing as decoration.
Also the brass Aceh shields within private collections with provenance of being pre 1900, are all plain and not that heavily decorated...

When you see these decorated brass shields in museumcollections, the earliest were collected in the first half of the 20th century (mostly the latter part of the first half even), or even the last half of the 20th century.
So some of these more decorated shields have nice old patina though.
A senior collector ones told me they are minangkabau shields...

Hope this is a bit usefull,
Maurice

Hi Maurice

Very helpful thanks.
I notice that the old 'plain' ones look 'spun' and quite thin compared to the cast ones?
I had already assumed that these were 20thC (hopefully first half). Thats fine, they are a whole lot nicer than their 20th century brass Indian counterparts!

Best
Gene

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Detlef,

Thanks. I'll have to look for the other types to join mine now
They look great on the wall don't they?
Is your metal one small?
Would it be possible to see the back of the wooden one?
I'm happy with this first four to start the collection, there is a lot of variation even in them.

Thanks again
Gene

Hi Gene,

yes they look nice at the wall but I am afraid that both from my collection not old ones. The plain brass ones are thick and heavy but the ones we have not so heavy. My brass one have a diameter from 27 cm and the wooden one 43 cm. Since Albert Zonneveld describe in his book on page 106 five types of this shields ( peurise awe/rattan, peurise kajee/wood, peurise nilo/buffalo hide, peurise paru/skin from sting-ray and peurise teumaga/brass) I think that there should be old wooden shields as well. I have heard that these shields was make already in early times for tourists.

Regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

The plain brass ones are thick and heavy but the ones we have not so heavy. ) I think that there should be old wooden shields as well. I have heard that these shields was make already in early times for tourists.

Regards,

Detlef

Yes you're right about that Detlef, the plain ones are surprisingly heavy unlike the more decorative ones.
But as suggested, amongst them there are also with nice patina, and nicely made grips, just not made for real warfare...

I've seen wooden ones with some good patina, but also never made for war..

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Yes you're right about that Detlef, the plain ones are surprisingly heavy unlike the more decorative ones.
But as suggested, amongst them there are also with nice patina, and nicely made grips, just not made for real warfare...

I've seen wooden ones with some good patina, but also never made for war..

Yes, my brass shield have a good patina and a good weight and an old repair also but by the wooden shield I have my doubts. But like Gene write it is a nice wall hanger!

Regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yes, my brass shield have a good patina and have a good weight and an old repair also but by the wooden shield I have my doubts. But like Gene write it is a nice wall hanger!

Regards,

Detlef

You can use it as fruit bowl... ;-)

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

You can use it as fruit bowl... ;-)

What a cheek! That's certainly fighting talk Maurice

Perhaps these shields will go to war after all?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

You can use it as fruit bowl... ;-)

Good that I get it very very cheap!!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Perhaps these shields will go to war after all?

Don't worry, I think that Maurice and I am understand very well by this!!

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Don't worry, I think that Maurice and I am understand very well by this!!

I know, he was only joking.

[Atlantia]

Detlef/Maurice

Gentlemen, I'm now rather intrigued by some of what this thread has uncovered.
The idea that the plain 'spun' shields are heavier than the elaborate cast ones is very interesting and completely counterintuitive to what I'd have expected from looking at them, and handling my own.

Would you both be willing to help clarify things with some dimensions and weights as I've not got access or experience to the plain types to make a direct comparison?

Best
Gene

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Would you both be willing to help clarify things with some dimensions and weights as I've not got access or experience to the plain types to make a direct comparison?

Sure Gene!

The most damaged one is 29 cm (diameter) and weights 1,94 kilograms....

The other one is 30 cm (diameter) and weights 1,44 kilograms....

The little one is real heavy and small, it has seen some real action according its condition...

Hope this helps a little Gene,
Kind Regards,
Maurice

PS I know that Willem has a plain one which is even heavier as my smallest one..

[Atlantia]

Cast one:

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Sure Gene!

The most damaged one is 29 cm (diameter) and weights 1,94 kilograms....

The other one is 30 cm (diameter) and weights 1,44 kilograms....

The little one is real heavy and small, it has seen some real action according its condition...

Hope this helps a little Gene,
Kind Regards,
Maurice

PS I know that Willem has a plain one which is even heavier as my smallest one..

It does help indeed Maurice.
And not just me I'm sure.

They are lovely examples you have. I'm STUNNED by just how heavy they are.
Is it a general rule that they got lighter as they fell out of active use?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Detlef/Maurice

Gentlemen, I'm now rather intrigued by some of what this thread has uncovered.
The idea that the plain 'spun' shields are heavier than the elaborate cast ones is very interesting and completely counterintuitive to what I'd have expected from looking at them, and handling my own.

Would you both be willing to help clarify things with some dimensions and weights as I've not got access or experience to the plain types to make a direct comparison?

Best
Gene

Gene,

I think that this help you can get better from Maurice since I have handled some plain shields byself but don't own one byself. The dimensions are nearly the same but can't tell for sure a exactly weight but I know from remembering
that they quite heavy.
What I can still tell you that I think that the both first ones you show seems to be younger as the other both, this is what I see by your pictures and like every time I can be wrong by this. The third and fourth seems to have a better quality and you maybe can confirm this by the weight.

Regards,

Detlef

[Atlantia]

Cast:

[Atlantia]

Hammered not cast, with applied bosses.

[Atlantia]

Cast (the smallest of the three cast that I have)

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Gene,

I think that this help you can get better from Maurice since I have handled some plain shields byself but don't own one byself. The dimensions are nearly the same but can't tell for sure a exactly weight but I know from remembering
that they quite heavy.
What I can still tell you that I think that the both first ones you show seems to be younger as the other both, this is what I see by your pictures and like every time I can be wrong by this. The third and fourth seems to have a better quality and you maybe can confirm this by the weight.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,
I'd be very interested to have the weights and dimensions of your cast shields if thats OK?

Best
Gene

[Sajen]

My brass one have a exact diameter from 26 cm and a weight from 772 g. Here pictures from the repair (front/back).

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Sajen

My brass one have a exact diameter from 26 cm and a weight from 772 g. Here pictures from the repair (front/back).

In the ballpark of the similar one that I have: 25cm/670g. Which strangely enough also has a soldered repair on the edge.

I think these are really nice. The 19th century ones are obviously more authentic as armour, but I am happy to have my first half 20thC examples! They are lovely things for relatively little money.