Balatos

micas · 20th June 2006, 01:14 PM

Acquired these 3 balatos in South Nias. Having seen what passes for tourist Balatos as well as the fake "old" Balatos, these 3 seem genuine as far as I'm able to determine.

According to the Niassan I bought these from, the top 2 are called Balato Tologu and the bottom one is called a Balato Balasala (his spellings). I had to assume the distinction between the Tologu and Balasala was in the shape of the blade. Couldn't get very specific due to language barrier.

Zonneveld's book refers to a Gari "Telegu" and a "Telagoe" but not a Balasala. Unless Balasala = Balatu Sebua.

Of the 3, the top 1 in the first 2 pics has the best carved Lasara hilt which also happens to be the one with 3 pieces broken off. I'm kind of ticked off about that.

I have the pieces but need to know what is the best way to glue it on - Superglue?

micas · 20th June 2006, 01:17 PM

Pics of the lasara hilts from bottom 2.

Tim Simmons · 20th June 2006, 05:16 PM

How nice to have three, I am still waiting. In this case I think it would be okay to use super glue as it looks like the repair will be almost invisible. PVA wood adhesive is normally my first choice when resorting to glues as it is general purpose, can be watered down, dries clear, is reversible, can be mixed with other substances to make matching pastes and made to match old grime with artists oil pastel and wax crayons.

VANDOO · 20th June 2006, 05:27 PM

VERY NICE INDEED!! IT IS NICE TO SEE THREE VARIATIONS AT ONCE AND EVEN BETTER TO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AQUIRE THE 3 AT ONCE. CONGRADULATIONS!
I SUSPECT YOU ARE RIGHT AS TO THE BLADE BEING THE REASON FOR THE DIFFERENT NAME ON THE THIRD EXAMPLE ITS POMMEL IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM THE USUAL BUT I AM SURE REPRESENTS THE SAME THING AS THE OTHERS. I USUALLY DON'T LIKE THE USE OF ALUMINUM ON WEAPONS BUT THE SCABBARD YOU HAVE I LIKE A LOT AND IS VERY WELL DONE. THE FETISH BALLS ARE NICE HAVING THE CARVED FACES AND DESIGNS ON THE WOOD TEETH AND WITH THE PIG TEETH, ARE THERE ANY CROCODILE TEETH MIXED IN?
I WOULD USE ELMERS WOOD GLUE TO GLUE IN THE SMALL CHIPS IT IS MUCH MORE FORGIVING THAN OTHER GLUES. YOU CAN PUT A LITTLE GLUE ON BOTH PEICES THEN PRESS IT INTO PLACE , HAVE A WET CLOTH AND A SMALL ARTISTS BRUSH WITH WATER HANDY YOU CAN THEN REMOVE ANY EXTRA GLUE THAT COMES OUT EASILY. THE ELMERS DOSEN'T LEAVE THE SHINEY FINISH IF ANY GLUE GETS OUT ON THE WOOD LIKE EPOXYS. IT ALSO DRYES SLOWER ALOWING YOU TO REPOSITION OR SOAK IT A LITTLE TO SOFTEN THE GLUE TO TRY AGAIN IF IT ACCIDENTALY GETS OUT OF PLACE WHILE DRYING. GOOD LUCK

micas · 20th June 2006, 06:33 PM

In addition to a deer horn, there are a couple smaller teeth adorning the basket on the 1st piece which I can't really figure out. They lack the striations like growth rings evident on the big boar tusks. Might be tooth from crocs or young boar tusks?

The 2nd balato's basket actually encloses what looks like another tusk. Can't really get a clear look since the external pieces are pretty tightly knit shut around the basket. Initially thought it might have just been a piece that fell in but it's not stained like the externals.

Actually forgot that there's such a thing as wood glue, duh. Heh. I've been working in technology way too long.

Flavio · 20th June 2006, 07:45 PM

Hello Micas, could you give the thickness of the blades? Thank you very much.

Rick · 20th June 2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micas

In addition to a deer horn, there are a couple smaller teeth adorning the basket on the 1st piece which I can't really figure out. They lack the striations like growth rings evident on the big boar tusks. Might be tooth from crocs or young boar tusks?

The 2nd balato's basket actually encloses what looks like another tusk. Can't really get a clear look since the external pieces are pretty tightly knit shut around the basket. Initially thought it might have just been a piece that fell in but it's not stained like the externals.

Actually forgot that there's such a thing as wood glue, duh. Heh. I've been working in technology way too long.

Crocodile teeth are (or used to be) seen quite frequently on older Balatos ; the ball of tusks or teeth often contains small fetish objects that have meaning to the sword's owner ; most of the time they were removed before selling or bartering the sword .

I used to have a very nice older example with a large boar's tusk ball ; it now resides in the collection of this forum's founder . One must take care in preservation of the tusks as they tend to flake and get brittle with age .

micas · 21st June 2006, 12:43 PM

Flavio: Here's a couple pics with measurements.

micas · 21st June 2006, 12:46 PM

Here's close-ups of those smaller teeth. Are these just immature tusks or teeth from some other animal?

Rick · 21st June 2006, 02:26 PM

I'm no expert but I don't believe the smaller teeth are Boar ; but what the Devil is that large tooth with the huge wierd base shown in the center of the topmost picture .

Tim Simmons · 21st June 2006, 02:34 PM

Looks like an antler from a small forest deer.

Ian · 21st June 2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm no expert but I don't believe the smaller teeth are Boar ; but what the Devil is that large tooth with the huge wierd base shown in the center of the topmost picture .

I think we have a mixture of items here. The small "teeth" could be claws -- they resemble bear claws on one of my Sumatran jimpul. The larger object referred to by Rick looks like a small stag antler. AFAIK there are forest deer throughout SE Asia, but I don't know specifically about Nias.

Ian (two of three)

A Malayan Sun Bear -- endangered specie

micas · 21st June 2006, 03:03 PM

Yup, it's an antler. Don't know from what species though.

The tooth in my hand is hollow btw; so I don't think it's a claw.

I know crocodile teeth is hollow. A Dayak showed me one tooth from a freshwater croc they accidentally caught in a fishing net - in Kalimantan, not Nias.

I wonder which endangered species are represented on this balato

Rick · 21st June 2006, 03:33 PM

They could also be the teeth of small cetaceans such as the Pilot Whale or any of the small toothed whales found in the area .

While we're on the subject of Nias :

http://nias.natmus.dk/photographs.htm

Enjoy the collection ; there are some gems in here for the finding .

Dajak · 21st June 2006, 03:42 PM

Hi How old do you think these bellato s are ???

VVV · 21st June 2006, 04:13 PM

Nice Balatos,

I am traveling at the moment but will have a look when back home if I can find something on Balato Balasala.

Ian, what does a Sumatran Jimpul look like?
Could you please share some pictures?

Michael

micas · 21st June 2006, 04:42 PM

Not sure how old these are. At least the seller had the honesty to say he didn't know either other than to say it's old. The tusks of the 2nd balato are tied to the basket with fishing line so it can't be that old - unless it was just restored that way.

If I had to go out on a limb, I'd say less than 100 and more than 20 years old

VVV · 22nd June 2006, 11:52 AM

Micas,

I went through my reference articles and books on Nias swords but couldn't find the description Balasala mentioned anywhere?
On Balato Tologu it was translated as ceremonial or royal sword. Balato is sword/knife in a generic sense.
I found several swords with the same blade as your Balasala but they were all listed as Tologu (lots of different spellings but I use your original one in this reply).

Michael

Cyclura99 · 24th June 2006, 07:38 AM

These are not old swords old as in the context of being used in the tribal sense of the word. Ie: headhunting as in the 19th c.These have the Beku too big on the handle ect just not old very late.The metal is probably thin on the scabbards the white metal is probably aluminum.Fishing line is key to show its not old.

The boars tusks is the most common found on the ball.Sometimes you find wooden teeth carved on tourist not old .The true Nias royal swords have C.Porsus teeth on them or Higher status the next P.Tigris Sondaica extinct 1980's, or P.tigris balica extinct 1940 or the p. tigris Sumatrae Teeth.Also a combination of the p. porsus and the above mentioned .Also the wooden carved figures on the amulet but most are from North Nias. Also other teeth or various animals are found on the amulet ball.

Boars tusks found on amulets such as these are late made as you can see they are very dark ie;probably smoked.When you see a very old Nias sword with a old Amulet ball made of boars tusk the configuration on how they are placed is not of this style.They are also very glossy Patina from handling over years and years and light in color .Almost a ivory white. Check to see how the ball post is made ....

Cy

Flavio · 24th June 2006, 09:54 AM

Hello Cy, how are you? hope fine!

Could you, as of course Dajak and Michael, please post some pics of old balatos? Thank you very much

micas · 24th June 2006, 10:41 AM

Cyclura: Are you saying these are tourist pieces and NOT genuine?

I knew they were not from 19C. The seller pretty much said to buy from the Dutch for the really old pieces.

Dajak · 24th June 2006, 11:49 AM

Hi Flavio for the real bellato s you have to be by Cyclura the last I send to him had one off the best blade and glossy shining scabbard I have seen the last few years.
And it came from an very old collector from the Netherlands

20th June 2006, 01:14 PM	#1
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	Balatos Acquired these 3 balatos in South Nias. Having seen what passes for tourist Balatos as well as the fake "old" Balatos, these 3 seem genuine as far as I'm able to determine. According to the Niassan I bought these from, the top 2 are called Balato Tologu and the bottom one is called a Balato Balasala (his spellings). I had to assume the distinction between the Tologu and Balasala was in the shape of the blade. Couldn't get very specific due to language barrier. Zonneveld's book refers to a Gari "Telegu" and a "Telagoe" but not a Balasala. Unless Balasala = Balatu Sebua. Of the 3, the top 1 in the first 2 pics has the best carved Lasara hilt which also happens to be the one with 3 pieces broken off. I'm kind of ticked off about that. I have the pieces but need to know what is the best way to glue it on - Superglue? Attached Images

20th June 2006, 01:17 PM	#2
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	Pics of the lasara hilts from bottom 2. Attached Images

21st June 2006, 12:43 PM	#8
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	Flavio: Here's a couple pics with measurements. Attached Images

21st June 2006, 12:46 PM	#9
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	Here's close-ups of those smaller teeth. Are these just immature tusks or teeth from some other animal? Attached Images

24th June 2006, 07:38 AM	#19
Cyclura99 Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 15	Balatos These are not old swords old as in the context of being used in the tribal sense of the word. Ie: headhunting as in the 19th c.These have the Beku too big on the handle ect just not old very late.The metal is probably thin on the scabbards the white metal is probably aluminum.Fishing line is key to show its not old. The boars tusks is the most common found on the ball.Sometimes you find wooden teeth carved on tourist not old .The true Nias royal swords have C.Porsus teeth on them or Higher status the next P.Tigris Sondaica extinct 1980's, or P.tigris balica extinct 1940 or the p. tigris Sumatrae Teeth.Also a combination of the p. porsus and the above mentioned .Also the wooden carved figures on the amulet but most are from North Nias. Also other teeth or various animals are found on the amulet ball. Boars tusks found on amulets such as these are late made as you can see they are very dark ie;probably smoked.When you see a very old Nias sword with a old Amulet ball made of boars tusk the configuration on how they are placed is not of this style.They are also very glossy Patina from handling over years and years and light in color .Almost a ivory white. Check to see how the ball post is made .... Cy

20th June 2006, 05:16 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	How nice to have three, I am still waiting. In this case I think it would be okay to use super glue as it looks like the repair will be almost invisible. PVA wood adhesive is normally my first choice when resorting to glues as it is general purpose, can be watered down, dries clear, is reversible, can be mixed with other substances to make matching pastes and made to match old grime with artists oil pastel and wax crayons.

20th June 2006, 05:27 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VERY NICE INDEED!! IT IS NICE TO SEE THREE VARIATIONS AT ONCE AND EVEN BETTER TO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AQUIRE THE 3 AT ONCE. CONGRADULATIONS! I SUSPECT YOU ARE RIGHT AS TO THE BLADE BEING THE REASON FOR THE DIFFERENT NAME ON THE THIRD EXAMPLE ITS POMMEL IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM THE USUAL BUT I AM SURE REPRESENTS THE SAME THING AS THE OTHERS. I USUALLY DON'T LIKE THE USE OF ALUMINUM ON WEAPONS BUT THE SCABBARD YOU HAVE I LIKE A LOT AND IS VERY WELL DONE. THE FETISH BALLS ARE NICE HAVING THE CARVED FACES AND DESIGNS ON THE WOOD TEETH AND WITH THE PIG TEETH, ARE THERE ANY CROCODILE TEETH MIXED IN? I WOULD USE ELMERS WOOD GLUE TO GLUE IN THE SMALL CHIPS IT IS MUCH MORE FORGIVING THAN OTHER GLUES. YOU CAN PUT A LITTLE GLUE ON BOTH PEICES THEN PRESS IT INTO PLACE , HAVE A WET CLOTH AND A SMALL ARTISTS BRUSH WITH WATER HANDY YOU CAN THEN REMOVE ANY EXTRA GLUE THAT COMES OUT EASILY. THE ELMERS DOSEN'T LEAVE THE SHINEY FINISH IF ANY GLUE GETS OUT ON THE WOOD LIKE EPOXYS. IT ALSO DRYES SLOWER ALOWING YOU TO REPOSITION OR SOAK IT A LITTLE TO SOFTEN THE GLUE TO TRY AGAIN IF IT ACCIDENTALY GETS OUT OF PLACE WHILE DRYING. GOOD LUCK

20th June 2006, 06:33 PM	#5
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	In addition to a deer horn, there are a couple smaller teeth adorning the basket on the 1st piece which I can't really figure out. They lack the striations like growth rings evident on the big boar tusks. Might be tooth from crocs or young boar tusks? The 2nd balato's basket actually encloses what looks like another tusk. Can't really get a clear look since the external pieces are pretty tightly knit shut around the basket. Initially thought it might have just been a piece that fell in but it's not stained like the externals. Actually forgot that there's such a thing as wood glue, duh. Heh. I've been working in technology way too long.

20th June 2006, 07:45 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Micas, could you give the thickness of the blades? Thank you very much.

21st June 2006, 02:26 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	I'm no expert but I don't believe the smaller teeth are Boar ; but what the Devil is that large tooth with the huge wierd base shown in the center of the topmost picture .

21st June 2006, 02:34 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Looks like an antler from a small forest deer.

21st June 2006, 03:03 PM	#13
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	Yup, it's an antler. Don't know from what species though. The tooth in my hand is hollow btw; so I don't think it's a claw. I know crocodile teeth is hollow. A Dayak showed me one tooth from a freshwater croc they accidentally caught in a fishing net - in Kalimantan, not Nias. I wonder which endangered species are represented on this balato

21st June 2006, 03:33 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	They could also be the teeth of small cetaceans such as the Pilot Whale or any of the small toothed whales found in the area . While we're on the subject of Nias : http://nias.natmus.dk/photographs.htm Enjoy the collection ; there are some gems in here for the finding .

21st June 2006, 03:42 PM	#15
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi How old do you think these bellato s are ???

21st June 2006, 04:13 PM	#16
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice Balatos, I am traveling at the moment but will have a look when back home if I can find something on Balato Balasala. Ian, what does a Sumatran Jimpul look like? Could you please share some pictures? Michael

21st June 2006, 04:42 PM	#17
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	Not sure how old these are. At least the seller had the honesty to say he didn't know either other than to say it's old. The tusks of the 2nd balato are tied to the basket with fishing line so it can't be that old - unless it was just restored that way. If I had to go out on a limb, I'd say less than 100 and more than 20 years old

22nd June 2006, 11:52 AM	#18
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Micas, I went through my reference articles and books on Nias swords but couldn't find the description Balasala mentioned anywhere? On Balato Tologu it was translated as ceremonial or royal sword. Balato is sword/knife in a generic sense. I found several swords with the same blade as your Balasala but they were all listed as Tologu (lots of different spellings but I use your original one in this reply). Michael

24th June 2006, 09:54 AM	#20
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Cy, how are you? hope fine! Could you, as of course Dajak and Michael, please post some pics of old balatos? Thank you very much

24th June 2006, 10:41 AM	#21
micas Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	Cyclura: Are you saying these are tourist pieces and NOT genuine? I knew they were not from 19C. The seller pretty much said to buy from the Dutch for the really old pieces.

24th June 2006, 11:49 AM	#22
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Flavio for the real bellato s you have to be by Cyclura the last I send to him had one off the best blade and glossy shining scabbard I have seen the last few years. And it came from an very old collector from the Netherlands