Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 18th April 2024, 04:16 PM   #1
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Lightbulb Terminology of Polish-Lithuanian arms

Terminology of Polish-Lithuanian arms




After a recent annoying discussion in a well-known facebook forum (yes, I see my mistake...) about trying to explain to someone that a Polish-Hungarian type sabre is not the same as a Karabela, I decided to record the terminology of weapons from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth here in all its facets from the literature, the way I got to know it.

In each case the picture of a weapon type is shown which is representative of possible alterations and the common names are given. I try as best I can to show an original example of each type, but if it makes didactic sense, a replica may also be used. This will then be clarified.

Please note that the terminology only really took off at the end of the 19th century and that the terms were used synonymously before then. In the 17th century, for example, there were "curved sabres", "curved pallasches", "straight sabres", "swords" (could be anything from rapiers to dussacks) and so on and so forth.

Let's start with Karabelas, after all, that's where the muck grew.

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 09:10 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 04:37 PM   #2
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Karabela

Synonyms: Szabla orla (Eagle´s sabre), Szabla z rękojeścią karabelowatą (Karabela-hilted sabre), Szabla z otwartą rękojeścią (open-hilted sabre; imprecise)

Note: The term used to describe any highly decorated sabre or pallash. Furthermore, there are two types according to today's understanding: the combat Karabela and the Karabela kontuszowa (dress version).
Attached Images
 

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 05:35 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 04:42 PM   #3
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Szabla polsko-węgierska (Polish-Hungarian sabre)

Synonyms: Szabla węgierska, Węgierka, Batorówka (wrong)
Attached Images
 

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 05:04 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 04:47 PM   #4
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Ordynka

Synonyms: Ormianka (debatable), Smyczek, Szabla tatarska, Czeczuga (Special feature here: distinctive blade, see picture)
Attached Images
 

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 08:59 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 04:51 PM   #5
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Szabla husarska

Synonyms: Szabla czarna (debatable), Pałasz husarski, Szabla z zamkniętym kabłąkiem
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 04:52 PM   #6
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

L-ka

Synonyms: Szabla czarna (debatable), Pałasz husarski, Szabla z półotwartym kabłąkiem, Szabla husarska
Attached Images
 

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 09:04 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 04:57 PM   #7
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Pałasz husarski

Synonyms: Pałasz prosty, Pałasz
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:03 PM   #8
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Szabla z furdymentem

Synonyms: Szabla litewska, Szabla czarna (debatable), Pałasz husarski, Szabla z zamkniętym kabłąkiem, Szabla husarska

Note: Alteration of the hussar sabre (curved or straight). It´s just about the basket hilt here.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 09:23 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:08 PM   #9
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Buława (Commanders Mace)
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:10 PM   #10
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Czekan

Synonyms: Siekierka, Toporek
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:11 PM   #11
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Nadziak
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:13 PM   #12
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Obuszek

Synonyms: Obuch

Note: Spike can be fully rounded.
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:19 PM   #13
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Kopia husarska

Synonyms: Kopia rycerska, Lanca, Kopia

Note: May be a copy in the Muzeum Narodowego w Krakowie.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 09:24 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:24 PM   #14
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Koncerz

Synonyms: Panzerstecher
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:30 PM   #15
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Buzdygan
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 05:40 PM   #16
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Batorówka, Zygmuntówka, Janówka

Every sabre with the image of Stefan Batory, Sigismund III Wasa or Jan III Sobieski on it, usually as gilding on the blade. Regardless of the time of creation.

Note: Image from "Najcenniejsze Tom IV" by Muzeum Wojska Polskiego in Warsaw. Fully recommend it!
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 07:34 PM   #17
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Corrected and now invalid post!

Last edited by awdaniec666; 18th April 2024 at 09:01 PM.
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 08:34 PM   #18
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Kościuszkówka
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 08:51 PM   #19
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Common sabre types from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth without current significant terms, synonyms or definitions
Attached Images
    
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 09:28 PM   #20
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Kosa bojowa i pika (Engl.: War scythe and pike)
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 09:37 PM   #21
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Lanca ułańska

Note: Shown lance is an Austrian model equivalent from the late 18th century.
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2024, 09:47 PM   #22
Radboud
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 261
Default

Great post, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Radboud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2024, 10:09 PM   #23
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Error correction for Czekan:
Toporek is not a synonym. Toporeks had more massive axe heads and were more focussed on force, whereas Czekans were probably intended to achieve a cutting effect. Below are two examples of typical Polish Czekans according to the consensus. The one with a handle is attributed to Sobieski, the one without a handle is stylistically identical but from an auction. But other forms were also common, also with hammer. For example, Hungarian "Fokos" were probably used a lot. Much rarer than Polish sabres, but somehow not so sought after by the average collector at the moment. Unfortunately, this is a topic that has received little academic attention. Recently I found sources in which the terms Nadziak and Czekan were used synonymously - what can one say. You want to hold on to knowledge and some time later you come across new findings. A general editing function for your own posts in this forum would be useful
Attached Images
  
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2024, 10:19 AM   #24
Jacenty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2024
Location: Poland, EU
Posts: 14
Default

What would you call this sabre?
Name:  abc.jpg
Views: 874
Size:  128.6 KB
Polish-Lithuanian?
Polish-Hungarian?
Hussars?
Jacenty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2024, 11:42 AM   #25
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 163
Default

Hi Jacenty. This is a Polish-Hungarian sabre. The Hungarians like to call it just "Hungarian". This is depicted in the third of forth post here - please keep in mind the depicted specimen are just examples and there are many variations. Sabres of this type have few things in common: Almond pommel, more or less straigh or slighty forwand bend grip, long cross guard and (typically) Styrian/Genoese/Hungarian curved blades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awdaniec666 View Post
Szabla polsko-węgierska (Polish-Hungarian sabre)

Synonyms: Szabla węgierska, Węgierka, Batorówka (wrong)
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.