Differences on Indian weapons

Jens Nordlunde · 24th October 2005, 03:11 PM

Have a look at these weapons. The axe and the bhuj are decorated in the same way, and are from Kutch. I have never seen a bhuj from this area with another scabbard than the one shown, gild metal with a floral design in relief. The last bhuj is quite different as the haft is of brass decorated in floral design in relief, with a scabbard in velvet, with two mounts of cobber decorated in floral motifs in relief. This bhuj comes from somewhere else in the area.

Jens Nordlunde · 24th October 2005, 03:12 PM

Now look at the concealed knives. The knifes from the axe and the bhuj in the middle are of the same kind, each one has a ‘hilt’, a rather short, and relatively thick, one edged pointed blade. The knife from the bhuj to the right however, has no ‘hilt’ and the blade is a slender two-edged stiletto.

Another thing worth noticing is the screw threads. On the two to the left they are almost sharp at the edges, but on the bhuj to the right the ‘edge’ is rounded.

Montino Bourbon · 24th October 2005, 06:36 PM

Could we see the blades on the bhuj, please?

Jens Nordlunde · 24th October 2005, 08:46 PM

Here is the first.

Jens Nordlunde · 24th October 2005, 08:47 PM

And the second. Notice the faint silver koft gari.

ariel · 25th October 2005, 01:53 AM

Gorgeous pieces! Jens, you got my congratulations!
Do we really have to imply that the two Bhujes come from different places with different traditions ? Can't we, in the spirit of Occam, just postulate the existence of two different weapon makers perhaps even living next door to each other? Or two buyers with different tastes?

Jens Nordlunde · 25th October 2005, 04:20 PM

Yes Ariel, you could be right, although I don’t think so. The axe and the bhuj in the middle are from Kutch, and I think the bhuj to the right is from Sind. Two places, geographically not very far from each other, but with quite a different style.

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 01:16 PM

In the book, Catalogue of the Collection of Indian Arms Presented by the Princes and Nobles of India to H.R.H. the Prince of Wales. 1898, Hendley shows an illustration of Case D, no 80 in this illustration shows a bhuj and a scabbard like the one I show to the left. His description of it is also the same and he writes that it was presented by H.H. the Raja of Rajpipla.

Another shown in Case I no 192 was presented by H.H. the Thakur Sahib of Palitane, and also here the picture and the description fits, only here the scabbard is covered in blue velvet and decorated with chased gold mounts of floral design.

Both Rajpipla and Palitana are situated in Gujarat just south of Kutch. The weapons were presented to H.R.H. the Prince of Wales on the occasion of his visit to India in 1875-1876, so the weapons shown in the cases are at least 130 years old.

Aqtai · 6th November 2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

In the book, Catalogue of the Collection of Indian Arms Presented by the Princes and Nobles of India to H.R.H. the Prince of Wales. 1898, Hendley shows an illustration of Case D, no 80 in this illustration shows a bhuj and a scabbard like the one I show to the left. His description of it is also the same and he writes that it was presented by H.H. the Raja of Rajpipla.

Another shown in Case I no 192 was presented by H.H. the Thakur Sahib of Palitane, and also here the picture and the description fits, only here the scabbard is covered in blue velvet and decorated with chased gold mounts of floral design.

Both Rajpipla and Palitana are situated in Gujarat just south of Kutch. The weapons were presented to H.R.H. the Prince of Wales on the occasion of his visit to India in 1875-1876, so the weapons shown in the cases are at least 130 years old.

I think I saw that book years ago in the library of the Faculty of Archaeology at cairo University.

What's the Author's full name BTW?

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 03:00 PM

His name is Thomas Holbein Hendley. During his long stay in India he wrote quite a lot of books on Indian arms and art, amongst others the below mentioned.
Ulwar and its Art Treasures, 1888.
Damascening on Steel or Iron, as Practised in India, 1892.
The Rulers of India, and the Chiefs of Rajaputhana, 1897.
Indian Jewellery, 1909.
Several of these books have been reprinted.
P. Holstein: Contribution a L’études des Armes Orientales, tome second. Paris, 1931. Plate XXII, no 99, shows a bhuj like the two shown by Hendley and the left one shown in my picture. The blades are the same but the decoration a little bit different.
Also plate XXIII no 163 and 199.
All three from Kutch.

24th October 2005, 03:11 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Differences on Indian weapons Have a look at these weapons. The axe and the bhuj are decorated in the same way, and are from Kutch. I have never seen a bhuj from this area with another scabbard than the one shown, gild metal with a floral design in relief. The last bhuj is quite different as the haft is of brass decorated in floral design in relief, with a scabbard in velvet, with two mounts of cobber decorated in floral motifs in relief. This bhuj comes from somewhere else in the area. Attached Images

24th October 2005, 03:12 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Now look at the concealed knives. The knifes from the axe and the bhuj in the middle are of the same kind, each one has a ‘hilt’, a rather short, and relatively thick, one edged pointed blade. The knife from the bhuj to the right however, has no ‘hilt’ and the blade is a slender two-edged stiletto. Another thing worth noticing is the screw threads. On the two to the left they are almost sharp at the edges, but on the bhuj to the right the ‘edge’ is rounded. Attached Images

24th October 2005, 08:46 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is the first. Attached Images

24th October 2005, 08:47 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	And the second. Notice the faint silver koft gari. Attached Images

6th November 2005, 03:00 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	His name is Thomas Holbein Hendley. During his long stay in India he wrote quite a lot of books on Indian arms and art, amongst others the below mentioned. Ulwar and its Art Treasures, 1888. Damascening on Steel or Iron, as Practised in India, 1892. The Rulers of India, and the Chiefs of Rajaputhana, 1897. Indian Jewellery, 1909. Several of these books have been reprinted. P. Holstein: Contribution a L’études des Armes Orientales, tome second. Paris, 1931. Plate XXII, no 99, shows a bhuj like the two shown by Hendley and the left one shown in my picture. The blades are the same but the decoration a little bit different. Also plate XXIII no 163 and 199. All three from Kutch. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 6th November 2005 at 03:34 PM.

24th October 2005, 06:36 PM	#3
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	Could we see the blades on the bhuj, please?

25th October 2005, 01:53 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Gorgeous pieces! Jens, you got my congratulations! Do we really have to imply that the two Bhujes come from different places with different traditions ? Can't we, in the spirit of Occam, just postulate the existence of two different weapon makers perhaps even living next door to each other? Or two buyers with different tastes?

25th October 2005, 04:20 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes Ariel, you could be right, although I don’t think so. The axe and the bhuj in the middle are from Kutch, and I think the bhuj to the right is from Sind. Two places, geographically not very far from each other, but with quite a different style.

6th November 2005, 01:16 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	In the book, Catalogue of the Collection of Indian Arms Presented by the Princes and Nobles of India to H.R.H. the Prince of Wales. 1898, Hendley shows an illustration of Case D, no 80 in this illustration shows a bhuj and a scabbard like the one I show to the left. His description of it is also the same and he writes that it was presented by H.H. the Raja of Rajpipla. Another shown in Case I no 192 was presented by H.H. the Thakur Sahib of Palitane, and also here the picture and the description fits, only here the scabbard is covered in blue velvet and decorated with chased gold mounts of floral design. Both Rajpipla and Palitana are situated in Gujarat just south of Kutch. The weapons were presented to H.R.H. the Prince of Wales on the occasion of his visit to India in 1875-1876, so the weapons shown in the cases are at least 130 years old.