Identification and thoughts

NickM · 4th May 2020, 01:12 AM

Dad picked these up while living in Afghanistan in the 60’s. Maybe tower percussion rifles. Although no tower markings or EIC markings and the longer one without bone inlay has some crude engravings which lead me to believe it is probably a badly made copy. One is rifled and the other smooth bore..Can anyone help with the deciphering of the written letters/numbers? Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.

Yvain · 4th May 2020, 04:36 PM

Those are djezail rifles, indeed from Afghanistan. The imitative markings on the lock are usual in the area, and indicate a local production (notably in the Khyber pass), although they are usually made from mismatched european punches, and not engraved like this, though I personally like it !

The longer one seems older to me, and might have a reused european barrel, considering it is rifled.

I'm sure more knowledgeable members will have more to say about them.

Bob A · 4th May 2020, 05:48 PM

I'm pleased to note that the long-standing tradition of including a foot in the photo of a long gun is being maintained.

Beyond that, my thoughts must extend to Dr. John Watson, whose migrating jezail wound, and resulting literary career, brought into the light the life and work of the world's first consulting detective.

Oliver Pinchot · 4th May 2020, 06:07 PM

It isn't actually an inscription. Afghans and other Central and South Asian peoples knew the fame of European, particularly British, locks. So local smiths did their best to mark their work with Latin letters, in order to make their wares more salable. Most had never actually seen them. It doesn't appear this particular maker ever saw a lion, either.

ariel · 5th May 2020, 03:33 AM

That was their payback to the European swordmakers who put lines of random squiggles on their blades to imitate Arabic / Farsi origin:-)

Philip · 6th May 2020, 06:19 AM

The exterior form of the lockplates and hammers is inspired by those on regulation pattern Enfield rifled muskets, which succeeded the venerable Brown Bess in British military issue in the mid 19th cent., a large number of which were also shipped to America during the Civil War.

4th May 2020, 01:12 AM	#1
NickM Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 1	Identification and thoughts Dad picked these up while living in Afghanistan in the 60’s. Maybe tower percussion rifles. Although no tower markings or EIC markings and the longer one without bone inlay has some crude engravings which lead me to believe it is probably a badly made copy. One is rifled and the other smooth bore..Can anyone help with the deciphering of the written letters/numbers? Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated. Attached Images

4th May 2020, 04:36 PM	#2
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	Those are djezail rifles, indeed from Afghanistan. The imitative markings on the lock are usual in the area, and indicate a local production (notably in the Khyber pass), although they are usually made from mismatched european punches, and not engraved like this, though I personally like it ! The longer one seems older to me, and might have a reused european barrel, considering it is rifled. I'm sure more knowledgeable members will have more to say about them.

4th May 2020, 05:48 PM	#3
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 427	I'm pleased to note that the long-standing tradition of including a foot in the photo of a long gun is being maintained. Beyond that, my thoughts must extend to Dr. John Watson, whose migrating jezail wound, and resulting literary career, brought into the light the life and work of the world's first consulting detective.

4th May 2020, 06:07 PM	#4
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	It isn't actually an inscription. Afghans and other Central and South Asian peoples knew the fame of European, particularly British, locks. So local smiths did their best to mark their work with Latin letters, in order to make their wares more salable. Most had never actually seen them. It doesn't appear this particular maker ever saw a lion, either.

5th May 2020, 03:33 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	That was their payback to the European swordmakers who put lines of random squiggles on their blades to imitate Arabic / Farsi origin:-)

6th May 2020, 06:19 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	The exterior form of the lockplates and hammers is inspired by those on regulation pattern Enfield rifled muskets, which succeeded the venerable Brown Bess in British military issue in the mid 19th cent., a large number of which were also shipped to America during the Civil War.