The Spanish Motto

fernando · 10th April 2024, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midelburgo

... I do not know of Toledo blades with it.

Wouldn't this one be Spanish ?

.

midelburgo · 11th April 2024, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Wouldn't this one be Spanish ?

.

The first one is from about 1660, blade possibly Italian. Toledo production by then was minimal.

Jim McDougall · 11th April 2024, 04:45 PM

Fernando and Midelburgo, thank you so much!!! This detail is very important in something I am presently engaged in writing, and incredibly helpful. Fernando, yes I do remember the discussions we have had on this through the years, and frankly I was always amazed at how much information you always come up with.
Midelburgo, your knowledge on Spanish swords has always been well reflected in your remarkable posts, and bring insights that are far beyond the resources I have had at hand.

The entries you have both provided here put this important topic in perfect perspective.

midelburgo · 11th April 2024, 09:32 PM

First one I believe Solingen. About 1760. Toledo was starting again in 1762, with Toledo and date etched on the blade. Possibly they are the same blades as some of the ENRIQUE COEL ones (there are 3 types of ENRIQUE COEL blades in 1728s).

Then, 3 from Halbach. Third one with a Batavian republic hilt. 1775-1810? Many have Montmorency blades.

Mexican machete probably Halbach.

Then two Solingen, after 1820, one marked by Knecht as well. For the Soth American Republics market.

Last one, also Solingen about 1740, in two lines. Easy to mistake with the blades 100 years younger. Central channel is narrower.

I have five "no me saques", 3 from Halbach, one unclear, one from Solingen after 1820.

midelburgo · 11th April 2024, 10:11 PM

Why the first one is Solingen?

You saw the two groups of 4 points in lozenge?

Sometimes they are inside a square.

Check the spelling at the end of the two channels sword from 1760 (also a 1728). SOLIGE- Solingen. This is a not common not rare blade. I have one.

Now, the funny part is that many of these blades are marked as from Toledo (To). But Toledo did not make swords anymore in 1760!!

Fake mark for the third sword, and fake mark for the first sword in this post.

Hotspur · 12th April 2024, 05:34 AM

All amazing swords and information.

For a late date Jim, there is the Wade Hampton example
'Sword manufactured by Kraft, Goldschmidt, & Kraft with imported German blade.'
https://acwm.pastperfectonline.com/w...B-769009747542

Somewhat tangentially, is the curious questions we have about Jim
Bowie's portrait sword (pre Alamo).

Mexico used a lot of so inscribed blades well into the 19th century.

Cheers
GC

Hotspur · 12th April 2024, 05:47 AM

Knecht the younger was pretty much a distributor/producer. There are identical swords marked to Berger and generically exported. It makes me wonder if the above palasch was simply using up dad's blades.

Neat stuff.

11th April 2024, 09:32 PM	#4
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 248	First one I believe Solingen. About 1760. Toledo was starting again in 1762, with Toledo and date etched on the blade. Possibly they are the same blades as some of the ENRIQUE COEL ones (there are 3 types of ENRIQUE COEL blades in 1728s). Then, 3 from Halbach. Third one with a Batavian republic hilt. 1775-1810? Many have Montmorency blades. Mexican machete probably Halbach. Then two Solingen, after 1820, one marked by Knecht as well. For the Soth American Republics market. Last one, also Solingen about 1740, in two lines. Easy to mistake with the blades 100 years younger. Central channel is narrower. I have five "no me saques", 3 from Halbach, one unclear, one from Solingen after 1820. Attached Images Last edited by midelburgo; 11th April 2024 at 10:36 PM.

11th April 2024, 10:11 PM	#5
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 248	Why the first one is Solingen? You saw the two groups of 4 points in lozenge? Sometimes they are inside a square. Check the spelling at the end of the two channels sword from 1760 (also a 1728). SOLIGE- Solingen. This is a not common not rare blade. I have one. Now, the funny part is that many of these blades are marked as from Toledo (To). But Toledo did not make swords anymore in 1760!! Fake mark for the third sword, and fake mark for the first sword in this post. Attached Images Last edited by midelburgo; 11th April 2024 at 10:28 PM.

11th April 2024, 04:45 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Fernando and Midelburgo, thank you so much!!! This detail is very important in something I am presently engaged in writing, and incredibly helpful. Fernando, yes I do remember the discussions we have had on this through the years, and frankly I was always amazed at how much information you always come up with. Midelburgo, your knowledge on Spanish swords has always been well reflected in your remarkable posts, and bring insights that are far beyond the resources I have had at hand. The entries you have both provided here put this important topic in perfect perspective.

12th April 2024, 05:34 AM	#6
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 491	All amazing swords and information. For a late date Jim, there is the Wade Hampton example 'Sword manufactured by Kraft, Goldschmidt, & Kraft with imported German blade.' https://acwm.pastperfectonline.com/w...B-769009747542 Somewhat tangentially, is the curious questions we have about Jim Bowie's portrait sword (pre Alamo). Mexico used a lot of so inscribed blades well into the 19th century. Cheers GC

12th April 2024, 05:47 AM	#7
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 491	Knecht the younger was pretty much a distributor/producer. There are identical swords marked to Berger and generically exported. It makes me wonder if the above palasch was simply using up dad's blades. Neat stuff.