Bulgarian (?) yataghan with inscription

eftihis · 6th March 2005, 11:30 PM

Somehow i decided to try to find out about all the unknown pieces i had in my closet!
This is one i believe is a Bulgarian yataghan, there is damage to the handle, the blade is pitted but of very good construction, and there are gold inlays on one side and an inscription in gold on the other side. Part of the inlay are missing, but i tried very much in the photos so that the original text should be readable, by looking at the places the inlay has come out.
Would love to know what the inscription says.
Theodor can you help us?

TVV · 7th March 2005, 05:46 PM

It is difficult to read, and I will consult other experts in Bulgaria. Is there any way you can make a picture of the whole inscription? I think you are right and it is Cyrillic, but I do not want to venture a wild guess just yet. I am sure we will decipher this one.
Regards,
Teodor

eftihis · 7th March 2005, 11:36 PM

Hallo Teodor!
See some photos of the entire inscription. But you have to se my previous photos to look carefully for th e prts the inlay is missing, but the "chanell" in the metal is there.
Regards!

TVV · 8th March 2005, 01:23 AM

Thanks Eftihis, not much progress so far, except that it seems that there are three words in the whole inscription, the second one of which seems to be Nenio, most probably the yataghan's owner. Nenio was a pretty common first name some time ago.
Do you know anything more about the area, from which the yataghan originated? This might help.
Regards,
Teodor

TVV · 8th March 2005, 06:26 PM

Eftihis, I have attached two pictures on which the letters are highlighted to help one see them better. I hate to ask this, but are you 100% sure it is not Greek?
Here is an interesting piece of information: Bulgarian haiduts (Christian outlaws) during Ottoman times, and especially between 1820-1878 spent the winter months outside of Bulgaria, in the free Christian countries, in order to spend their loot, which they could not do in the Ottoman Empire due to obvious reasons. Some went to Wallachia and Moldova, others to Serbia, and some went south to Greece. There they spent most for alcohol and women, but also some for repairing their weapons, very much like the famous Carribean pirates in Tortuga. Therefore, Greek inscriptions on yataghans, kilidjes and other edged weapons are not that rare. One also needs to keep in mind that in the first half of the 19th century the Bulgarian Renaissance was in its early stage, and Bulgarian writing in Cyrillic was not as popular and developped as writing in Greek, and most of the literate Bulgarians preferred to write in Greek.
On your piece, a combination of the two: Cyrillic and Greek is also quite possible, to make matters even more complicated. A further note is that Christians in Ottoman lands were not allowed to carry weapons with very few exceptions, and normally a yataghan originating in the Ottoman Empire would not bear an inscription in Bulgarian or Greek. Therefore I think that while it could well be a Bulgarian inscription made for a Bulgarian haidut, this yataghan originated in Greece. There is no date unfortunatelly, but I would date in the middle of the 19th century, or maybe early 19th century.
I will keep on trying to solve the inscription with the help of my Bulgarian collector friends, so this thread is far from over (I hope).
Best Regards,
Teodor

Yannis · 9th March 2005, 11:23 AM

TVV

The script is not Greek. At least in a form (ancient, Byzantine, dimotiki, katharevousa, etc) that we can decipher. But your post is very interesting and reminds me few things.

The majority of people in Balkan peninsula in 19th century were illiterate. Bladesmiths often tried to “write” words without knowledge (or very poor knowledge) of the alphabet. Usually the customer gave them these words on a piece of paper and they copied the symbols.

Imagine a nice phrase on a sword. This sword goes to a bladesmith for restoration. He copies the phrase in a new sword although he is illiterate. Maybe later he copies it again, this time from the new sword. The phrase is not readable anymore…

TVV · 9th March 2005, 06:49 PM

Yannis, you have made a great point and I absolutely agree with you: popular inscriptions and symbols on swords tend to get copied a lot, and with every copy they become more and more unrecognizable. We tried absolutely all types of Cyrillic used in Bulgaria, from the 9th century to nowadays, and nothing seemed to work either. However, if it is indeed Bulgarian, the first word seems to start with the letters "Б" "O" and then "Г" or "З", which is the root of the Bulgarian word for God. This is more of a guess than a certainty, but it is probable as inscriptions from that period were somewhat religious. A very popular inscription on Bulgarian swords and daggers until the 1940s was "БОГ С НАМЪ", meaning "GOD WITH US".
Still, considering the literacy rate in Bulgarian lands under the Ottomans in the early 19th cenury, chances are the inscription is distorted Greek, and you should check for the most popular inscriptions in this language on weapons from the period.
Best Regards,
Teodor

6th March 2005, 11:30 PM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Bulgarian (?) yataghan with inscription Somehow i decided to try to find out about all the unknown pieces i had in my closet! This is one i believe is a Bulgarian yataghan, there is damage to the handle, the blade is pitted but of very good construction, and there are gold inlays on one side and an inscription in gold on the other side. Part of the inlay are missing, but i tried very much in the photos so that the original text should be readable, by looking at the places the inlay has come out. Would love to know what the inscription says. Theodor can you help us? Attached Images

7th March 2005, 11:36 PM	#3
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	More photos Hallo Teodor! See some photos of the entire inscription. But you have to se my previous photos to look carefully for th e prts the inlay is missing, but the "chanell" in the metal is there. Regards! Attached Images

8th March 2005, 06:26 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Eftihis, I have attached two pictures on which the letters are highlighted to help one see them better. I hate to ask this, but are you 100% sure it is not Greek? Here is an interesting piece of information: Bulgarian haiduts (Christian outlaws) during Ottoman times, and especially between 1820-1878 spent the winter months outside of Bulgaria, in the free Christian countries, in order to spend their loot, which they could not do in the Ottoman Empire due to obvious reasons. Some went to Wallachia and Moldova, others to Serbia, and some went south to Greece. There they spent most for alcohol and women, but also some for repairing their weapons, very much like the famous Carribean pirates in Tortuga. Therefore, Greek inscriptions on yataghans, kilidjes and other edged weapons are not that rare. One also needs to keep in mind that in the first half of the 19th century the Bulgarian Renaissance was in its early stage, and Bulgarian writing in Cyrillic was not as popular and developped as writing in Greek, and most of the literate Bulgarians preferred to write in Greek. On your piece, a combination of the two: Cyrillic and Greek is also quite possible, to make matters even more complicated. A further note is that Christians in Ottoman lands were not allowed to carry weapons with very few exceptions, and normally a yataghan originating in the Ottoman Empire would not bear an inscription in Bulgarian or Greek. Therefore I think that while it could well be a Bulgarian inscription made for a Bulgarian haidut, this yataghan originated in Greece. There is no date unfortunatelly, but I would date in the middle of the 19th century, or maybe early 19th century. I will keep on trying to solve the inscription with the help of my Bulgarian collector friends, so this thread is far from over (I hope). Best Regards, Teodor Attached Images

7th March 2005, 05:46 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	It is difficult to read, and I will consult other experts in Bulgaria. Is there any way you can make a picture of the whole inscription? I think you are right and it is Cyrillic, but I do not want to venture a wild guess just yet. I am sure we will decipher this one. Regards, Teodor

8th March 2005, 01:23 AM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Thanks Eftihis, not much progress so far, except that it seems that there are three words in the whole inscription, the second one of which seems to be Nenio, most probably the yataghan's owner. Nenio was a pretty common first name some time ago. Do you know anything more about the area, from which the yataghan originated? This might help. Regards, Teodor

9th March 2005, 11:23 AM	#6
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	TVV The script is not Greek. At least in a form (ancient, Byzantine, dimotiki, katharevousa, etc) that we can decipher. But your post is very interesting and reminds me few things. The majority of people in Balkan peninsula in 19th century were illiterate. Bladesmiths often tried to “write” words without knowledge (or very poor knowledge) of the alphabet. Usually the customer gave them these words on a piece of paper and they copied the symbols. Imagine a nice phrase on a sword. This sword goes to a bladesmith for restoration. He copies the phrase in a new sword although he is illiterate. Maybe later he copies it again, this time from the new sword. The phrase is not readable anymore…

9th March 2005, 06:49 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Yannis, you have made a great point and I absolutely agree with you: popular inscriptions and symbols on swords tend to get copied a lot, and with every copy they become more and more unrecognizable. We tried absolutely all types of Cyrillic used in Bulgaria, from the 9th century to nowadays, and nothing seemed to work either. However, if it is indeed Bulgarian, the first word seems to start with the letters "Б" "O" and then "Г" or "З", which is the root of the Bulgarian word for God. This is more of a guess than a certainty, but it is probable as inscriptions from that period were somewhat religious. A very popular inscription on Bulgarian swords and daggers until the 1940s was "БОГ С НАМЪ", meaning "GOD WITH US". Still, considering the literacy rate in Bulgarian lands under the Ottomans in the early 19th cenury, chances are the inscription is distorted Greek, and you should check for the most popular inscriptions in this language on weapons from the period. Best Regards, Teodor