'Hunting' sword/sabre/hanger

kronckew · 14th April 2019, 11:31 AM

In transit from the EU, vendor thinks it's a Solingen blade with a wolf both sides. I'm not so sure, could be a wolf or a fox or... Their description was a bit terse. English? Naval Officer's hanger? 18c? I'll give More info on arrival. Blade looks like UK, brass guard, Chain & Pommel, leather grip, slightly worn, spiralled with twisted wire. Been lovingly kept rust (and patina

) free. Shows signs of past pitting, forge marks. Scabbard has gone walk-about.

Thanks in advance for any additional info y'all can provide...

corrado26 · 14th April 2019, 02:49 PM

I think this is a German or Austrian hunting sword, a "Jagdplaute" in German language. Made probably at Solingen in the middle of the 18. century. It has certainly nothing to do with a navy.
corrado26

cornelistromp · 14th April 2019, 03:29 PM

the blade resembles the blades mounted in british infantry hangers in the middle of the 18th century. the mark in the blade can be a running fox, the mark from Samuel Harvey from Birmingham. if so, in the fox the initial SH could be seen

best,
jasper

kronckew · 14th April 2019, 04:33 PM

Cool, two opinions for the price of one

When it arrives, maybe the mark on the other side will reveal more.

Jim McDougall · 14th April 2019, 05:39 PM

As Jasper has observed, this is a mid 18th c hanger blade as produced by Samuel Harvey in Birmingham from 1750-70s. The running fox (aka bushy tail fox) is in the proper blade location and these were fully animated images, indeed often (not always) with initials SH.
Solingen running wolf was a chop mark type stylization, usually similar but free style and on one side of blade typically.

This does look like a German, or East European hanger of the period, but then British hangers and German often interpolated. British infantry hangers of mid 18th century followed established Prussian styles. While this is a civilian hunting sword it is interesting to see a munitions grade military hanger blade used....very interesting.

kronckew · 14th April 2019, 07:46 PM

Thanks,Jim, as I h̶o̶p̶e̶d̶ suspected.

What tales it could tell of its journeys. From here to the far side of Europe and now on its way back home. It would have been made during the rule of the German Kingdom of Preußen eventually winding up in one of it's most eastern states of Latvia, where it is leaving for home...Possibly made for one of Frederick the Great's Nobles visiting England, or carried there as booty by Nappy, or loot by Wilhelm in 1871, after a short stay in France by the conquering British Infantry after waterloo.

kronckew · 30th April 2019, 05:28 PM

Sword has arrived! In excellent condiftion. Grip is tight & undamaged, leather has some light wear, tho a few dings & minor dents to the metal fittings & it has apparently been polished. I say Apperently as there is NO sign of any polishing agent anywhere, having looked at it the yellow metal guard,bolster, pommel, wire wrap and the chain look more like they are gilt or gold plated. Not a speck of brass oxidation or verdegris in any crevass, the engraving lines do have some blackening in them, likely dirt.

Blade polished, no rust, some minor pitting ands patinated areas. Balde is 24.25 In. long, 0.25 in. thick at the guard, distal tapered to the slightly rounded point. False edge spine from end of fuller to the tip, the 'false' becomes real about halfway - almost cut myself on it. Main edge has a few nicks and needs sharpening. Oval x-section gtrip is 4.25 in. from guard to pommel.

Blade has a running fox both sides, one side further forward than the other. weight 459 grams (just over a pound).

One side has the fox sort of from the chest down, the other has it chest up. Put them together and it definitely looks like a proper Harvey, Birmingham running fox, not a solingen wolf punched with a chisel tip. If there were any initials,they have been polished away.

This is definitely in my Favourites list, near the top!

The 'Other' half of the fox:

kronckew · 30th April 2019, 07:01 PM

In a miracle of modern digital medicine, the fox has been repaired. The operation was a success, but the patient remains the same.

Jim McDougall · 30th April 2019, 07:04 PM

BEAUTIFUL!!! Yup, that's the BTF (=bushy tail fox) OK.
While there must have been a lot of these blades produced, they really are not around a lot. Surely many are dormant in collections or stashed away in static estate holdings, many were probably sold or traded off or destroyed.
VERY NICE WAYNE!

14th April 2019, 11:31 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	'Hunting' sword/sabre/hanger In transit from the EU, vendor thinks it's a Solingen blade with a wolf both sides. I'm not so sure, could be a wolf or a fox or... Their description was a bit terse. English? Naval Officer's hanger? 18c? I'll give More info on arrival. Blade looks like UK, brass guard, Chain & Pommel, leather grip, slightly worn, spiralled with twisted wire. Been lovingly kept rust (and patina ) free. Shows signs of past pitting, forge marks. Scabbard has gone walk-about. Thanks in advance for any additional info y'all can provide... Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 14th April 2019 at 11:59 AM.

14th April 2019, 07:46 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Thanks,Jim, as I h̶o̶p̶e̶d̶ suspected. What tales it could tell of its journeys. From here to the far side of Europe and now on its way back home. It would have been made during the rule of the German Kingdom of Preußen eventually winding up in one of it's most eastern states of Latvia, where it is leaving for home...Possibly made for one of Frederick the Great's Nobles visiting England, or carried there as booty by Nappy, or loot by Wilhelm in 1871, after a short stay in France by the conquering British Infantry after waterloo. Last edited by kronckew; 14th April 2019 at 08:06 PM.

30th April 2019, 05:28 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Sword has arrived! In excellent condiftion. Grip is tight & undamaged, leather has some light wear, tho a few dings & minor dents to the metal fittings & it has apparently been polished. I say Apperently as there is NO sign of any polishing agent anywhere, having looked at it the yellow metal guard,bolster, pommel, wire wrap and the chain look more like they are gilt or gold plated. Not a speck of brass oxidation or verdegris in any crevass, the engraving lines do have some blackening in them, likely dirt. Blade polished, no rust, some minor pitting ands patinated areas. Balde is 24.25 In. long, 0.25 in. thick at the guard, distal tapered to the slightly rounded point. False edge spine from end of fuller to the tip, the 'false' becomes real about halfway - almost cut myself on it. Main edge has a few nicks and needs sharpening. Oval x-section gtrip is 4.25 in. from guard to pommel. Blade has a running fox both sides, one side further forward than the other. weight 459 grams (just over a pound). One side has the fox sort of from the chest down, the other has it chest up. Put them together and it definitely looks like a proper Harvey, Birmingham running fox, not a solingen wolf punched with a chisel tip. If there were any initials,they have been polished away. This is definitely in my Favourites list, near the top! The 'Other' half of the fox: Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 30th April 2019 at 09:25 PM.

30th April 2019, 07:01 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	In a miracle of modern digital medicine, the fox has been repaired. The operation was a success, but the patient remains the same. Attached Images

14th April 2019, 02:49 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	I think this is a German or Austrian hunting sword, a "Jagdplaute" in German language. Made probably at Solingen in the middle of the 18. century. It has certainly nothing to do with a navy. corrado26

14th April 2019, 03:29 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	the blade resembles the blades mounted in british infantry hangers in the middle of the 18th century. the mark in the blade can be a running fox, the mark from Samuel Harvey from Birmingham. if so, in the fox the initial SH could be seen best, jasper

14th April 2019, 04:33 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Cool, two opinions for the price of one When it arrives, maybe the mark on the other side will reveal more.

14th April 2019, 05:39 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	As Jasper has observed, this is a mid 18th c hanger blade as produced by Samuel Harvey in Birmingham from 1750-70s. The running fox (aka bushy tail fox) is in the proper blade location and these were fully animated images, indeed often (not always) with initials SH. Solingen running wolf was a chop mark type stylization, usually similar but free style and on one side of blade typically. This does look like a German, or East European hanger of the period, but then British hangers and German often interpolated. British infantry hangers of mid 18th century followed established Prussian styles. While this is a civilian hunting sword it is interesting to see a munitions grade military hanger blade used....very interesting.

30th April 2019, 07:04 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	BEAUTIFUL!!! Yup, that's the BTF (=bushy tail fox) OK. While there must have been a lot of these blades produced, they really are not around a lot. Surely many are dormant in collections or stashed away in static estate holdings, many were probably sold or traded off or destroyed. VERY NICE WAYNE!