Small Chinese Jian questions

Atlantia · 1st October 2011, 02:58 PM

When I was a kid, the generic short Chinese Jian were one of the more common old swords that I saw for sale.
But recently all the ones I've seen have been in the most awful condition.
Anyway, I picked thisn one up today and I have a few questions.
It's a fairly standard affair with seven 'stars', peened tang lacquered scabbard.
All the fittings are present and the hilt isn't badly cracked or chipped.
Were they ear;y tourist items or did they have a genuine purpose?
Date? Pre WW2?

P.S. Check out the creepy bug that walked over when I took the picture!

Gavin Nugent · 1st October 2011, 03:53 PM

Crikeys mate, watch out that don't crawl anywhere you don't want it too.

The short Jian is documented all the way back to the early 1400s and likely further when you consider the similar size although differing types are known from the warring states period it does go back a long way...so moving right along, these pieces are capable fighters but the type you show is as I understand it from the mid 1800s and was of a votive nature. I can not remember the museum off hand but there is a provenanced example in a SEA museum from this time and the type was said to be gifts from the courts to dignitaries and the like. I have a period line drawing from a book dated 1895 that shows a Taoist priest using one of similar size....in a nut shell they are ritual swords and gifts for people of some standing.

Gav

RSWORD · 1st October 2011, 06:03 PM

I would also add to Gavin's comments that a wide assortment of blade quality can be found in these. Occassionally, an older blade will be recycled in these later mounts and when polished and etched you can find very nice laminations. Sometimes, the blades are contemporary with the mounts and of lower quality. I recommend you give the blade a light cleaning and a vinegar etch and see if you can see any lamination. It would be nice if it was a fighting blade and had hardened edges with some laminations in the body of the blade.

Atlantia · 2nd October 2011, 12:40 PM

Hi Chaps,
Thanks for the great info!
And I'll give it a quick clean now....

Best
gene

Gavin Nugent · 2nd October 2011, 01:18 PM

Well Noted Rick.

Gene, you'll be sure to find a very good laminated blade in this example you have, they type have very capable blades where are those short ones circa 1900, little can be said about them....

Gav

werecow · 1st March 2023, 11:20 PM

Since you guys already did the sword I will just raise this thread from the dead to note that the bug is a harmless velvet mite.

Gavin Nugent · 1st March 2023, 11:48 PM

Harmless to Velvet too?

werecow · 1st March 2023, 11:53 PM

I believe the name is a comment on its appearance, rather than its diet, but don't quote me on that. }|:oP

EDIT: Apparently their larvae are parasites on insects and arachnids, whereas the adults eat insect and spider eggs.

1st October 2011, 02:58 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Small Chinese Jian questions When I was a kid, the generic short Chinese Jian were one of the more common old swords that I saw for sale. But recently all the ones I've seen have been in the most awful condition. Anyway, I picked thisn one up today and I have a few questions. It's a fairly standard affair with seven 'stars', peened tang lacquered scabbard. All the fittings are present and the hilt isn't badly cracked or chipped. Were they ear;y tourist items or did they have a genuine purpose? Date? Pre WW2? P.S. Check out the creepy bug that walked over when I took the picture! Attached Images

1st October 2011, 03:53 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Crikeys mate, watch out that don't crawl anywhere you don't want it too. The short Jian is documented all the way back to the early 1400s and likely further when you consider the similar size although differing types are known from the warring states period it does go back a long way...so moving right along, these pieces are capable fighters but the type you show is as I understand it from the mid 1800s and was of a votive nature. I can not remember the museum off hand but there is a provenanced example in a SEA museum from this time and the type was said to be gifts from the courts to dignitaries and the like. I have a period line drawing from a book dated 1895 that shows a Taoist priest using one of similar size....in a nut shell they are ritual swords and gifts for people of some standing. Gav

1st October 2011, 06:03 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	I would also add to Gavin's comments that a wide assortment of blade quality can be found in these. Occassionally, an older blade will be recycled in these later mounts and when polished and etched you can find very nice laminations. Sometimes, the blades are contemporary with the mounts and of lower quality. I recommend you give the blade a light cleaning and a vinegar etch and see if you can see any lamination. It would be nice if it was a fighting blade and had hardened edges with some laminations in the body of the blade.

2nd October 2011, 12:40 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Chaps, Thanks for the great info! And I'll give it a quick clean now.... Best gene

2nd October 2011, 01:18 PM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Well Noted Rick. Gene, you'll be sure to find a very good laminated blade in this example you have, they type have very capable blades where are those short ones circa 1900, little can be said about them.... Gav

1st March 2023, 11:20 PM	#6
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 498	Since you guys already did the sword I will just raise this thread from the dead to note that the bug is a harmless velvet mite.

1st March 2023, 11:48 PM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Harmless to Velvet too?

1st March 2023, 11:53 PM	#8
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 498	I believe the name is a comment on its appearance, rather than its diet, but don't quote me on that. }\|:oP EDIT: Apparently their larvae are parasites on insects and arachnids, whereas the adults eat insect and spider eggs.