Sickle Knife, India ???

[Robert]

Just picked this up and would like to know if it is a weapon or farm tool. Measuring from the end of the hilt in a straight line it is 13-1/2 inches tall. I do not have it in my possession yet but here are a few of the auction pictures. It definitely looks to be hand forged and not recently made, at least to me. Any and all help on this as to age, use and where it is from would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Robert

[spiral]

Somwhere from Nepal to the south east asian Archpeligo, Id guess.

Spiral

[Robert]

Hello Spiral, and thank you very much for the information for where this might have been made. Now if only someone can help me on who it was that might have made it, whether or not it is a tool or a weapon and give me an idea of when it might have been made I would be more than grateful. Thank you again for your help.

Regards,
Robert

[kronckew]

nepali hasiya - a fancy one.


ubiquitous farm sickle used all over nepal, usually in a wood carrier block with a string baldric, blade partially exposed. like filipino bolos, not designed as a weapon, but as an everyday farm tool. also, like a filipino farmer's bolo, i wouldn't want to tackle a person with one who has used it every day of his life for just about everything.

a less fancy one with block & baldric.

[Berkley]

Hasiyas in Nepal, showing the wide range of sizes and shapes as well as customary uses and carry:

[spiral]

I find it usefull to remember with kukri, That They occur through a broad range... Nepal,India, Burma at the very least.

Id Say thats the same with Himalayen Sickles.

Spiral

[Blacksmith]

Hello, Anthony Tirri, in his book "Islamic Weapons", says that these sickle style knives are from Malaysia region and are called `ARIT`( page 412, figure 290 A).
Though I bought almost a similar one you have from South- India ( Kerala) and seller said that it is a farming tool ( sickle).

Hope this will help.
Regards, Timo

[Robert]

Hello everyone and thank you all very much for your help in identifying where this is from. Timo, is there any way that you could post a picture of the example that you have for comparison? With the blade looking to be very heavy and thick I thought that it could very easily be used as a weapon. The ones that are normally seen here in the states have very thin blades and though they could also very easily be used as a weapon they would certainly not be my first choice if having to use a farm tool. Again my thanks to all who have responded to my questions and I will post new pictures after this has arrived and I have had a chance to do a little cleaning on it. Would anyone like to make an estimate on the age of this item?

Regards,
Robert

[Blacksmith]

Hi, I gave mine to my brother but I`ll ask him to take some pictures and send them to me. I think that late 1800/beginning of the 1900. I also wondered the thicknes of the spine,
its more like tool to clear up bushes etc.
Regards, Timo

[kahnjar1]

Hi Robert,
Not my area of expertise but there is an Indian knife called a BANK which is of sickle shape.
Regards Stuart

[kai]

Hello Stuart,

Not my area of expertise but there is an Indian knife called a BANK which is of sickle shape.

That's another animal: smaller blade and with a tighter arc. Can't remember seeing roughly finished examples of these, too.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Timo,

Anthony Tirri, in his book "Islamic Weapons", says that these sickle style knives are from Malaysia region and are called `ARIT`( page 412, figure 290 A).

This is not an arit and likely not from the SEA archipelago - I'd guess at India and neighboring regions.

Though I bought almost a similar one you have from South- India ( Kerala) and seller said that it is a farming tool ( sickle).

Would love to see that, too!

Regards,
Kai

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Stuart,


That's another animal: smaller blade and with a tighter arc. Can't remember seeing roughly finished examples of these, too.

Regards,
Kai

Thanks Kai. It was just an idea. Always willing to learn

[kai]

Hello Robert,

An interesting one again!

With the blade looking to be very heavy and thick I thought that it could very easily be used as a weapon. The ones that are normally seen here in the states have very thin blades and though they could also very easily be used as a weapon they would certainly not be my first choice if having to use a farm tool.

Yeah, that decoration at the base looks pretty heavy for routine agricultural use - maybe a ceremonial example?

Would anyone like to make an estimate on the age of this item?

Difficult without established origin and no pieces to compare it with. From what I can see on the pics (workmanship and estimated patina), I'd guess at 20th century. However, village quality pieces are notoriously difficult to place...

Regards,
Kai

[Robert]

Hello Kai and thank you very much for your thoughts on this item. I hope that Timo can get his brother to send pictures of his example to post for comparison with mine. Your estimate of age is greatly appreciated but could you be a bit more exacting on when it might have been made, 1st, 2nd or 3rd quarter of the twentieth century? Again my thanks to everyone for their help on this.

Regards,
Robert

[Robert]

Well this showed up in the mail today so here are a few new photos. I'm not sure if they are any improvement over the originals though. The blade is slightly over 1/4 inch thick where it meets the decorative piece. This is definitely a hand forged piece complete with plenty of hammer marks up and down the blade. I agree with Kai and believe this to be a ceremonial item. Any comments and opinions on this would be very welcome.

Regards,
Robert

[Billman]

I have several of these, one bought with some other tools (from the Indian subcontinent), and seen several others. Mine are not to hand, but I have a couple of images of some sold in France a year or two ago, plus a few others of similar tools...

Sorry I cannot be more specific, but at least you know it is not a unique piece, and that the method of construction (a steel blade inserted into an ornamented iron stock) was common in some (unknown) region...

As three turned up in France (and I also bought one of mine there) they may be from the French speaking regions of Puducherry or Chandannagar on the eastern coast of India (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_French)

Note images 3 and 4 are from different tools (4 was sold without a handle) - the other seem to have a teak like wooden handle... (site has just changed order of images - now images 1 & 2)

[manteris1]

what about this.............jimmy

[Billman]

Can you please add a full side on image to the above?? It may help to identify its origins... I would class this as a billhook (or pruning hook/tea hook) - the tool in question is almost certainly a harvesting sickle...

[M ELEY]

I am amazed at how closely this item resembles Spanish colonail pieces with some of their decoration, design, tooled handle. The decorations nearly exactly match those found on Spanish colonial swords. My Brazilian espada, discussed at length in other threads, has the odd star patterns and line designs like these. Furthermore, on many espada ancha, we see the odd hook-like protrusions like those found on these. Some of the protrusions on espada go a step futher by making them into snakes. On Billman's example, we see the Moroccan-style flyssa-type hilt on one of these pieces. This exactly matches the Brazilian cutlass patterns, as seen on this site and in museum collections. I understadn that many of these themes were borrowed and found in other cultures, but could one theorize that at the very least, we see a cross-over of cultures with these pieces? My .2 cents.

[Billman]

Hi, I collect billhooks - now have over 6000 from various countries and continents - one thing I have noticed is parallel development in shapes, handles, methods of construction etc. Japanese and Chinese billhooks are very similar to European ones - they have had them for at least as long as we have had in the West (at least 2000 years). Ditto those from India and Africa, in fact almost any civilisation that has had iron working in its development.

Similar parallel development can be in other basic hand tools: sickles, axes, adzes & hammers and in weapons: spears, swords, bows & arrows...

The same is probably also true in respect of ornamentation/decoration e.g. scroll work, inlay and incised decoration. I have decorated billhooks from several different countries - certain types of decoration are common in tools from widely separated areas, especially punched (or chiseled) lines, curves, whorls, stars and combinations thereof...

My best guess is that tools of this type were used by women on a daily basis. India has a tradition of decorated tools, especially sickles. These may have been part of a marriage dowry, or a gift from the groom to the bride. Judging by the degree of wear on some of the blades, they were regularly used over a long period of time. Searches of images for rice or grain harvest show mainly women working in the fields - the men undertaking the heavier tasks such as ploughing the land....

[manteris1]

pretty fancy for a farm tool............jimmy

[Billman]

Hi Jimmy

At first glance of the blade shape, I would say Italian, maybe Austrian - chip carving is common on items from the European Alps, and a mushroom type handle although rare in Italy, is not unknown. Having said that it could be Asian - without provenance it is very difficult to accurately place a tool that is found worldwide, is often rehandled, and that was often exported or taken overseas by colonists.

The handle decoration is not something I have seen before, but is typical of the sort of work done in rural communities, either to pass the time, or to personalize an object. I guess this is (or was) a common practice worldwide - before TV, radio and mobile phone there was not a lot to do in the long winter evenings...

In the second image, there appears to be some marks on the blade.... These may help in identifying its origin, as would close examination of the blade to look for forging marks, weld lines etc.

Identification of the wood of the handle may also be an aid to origins - beech and light woods are more common in Europe, teak and darker woods in Asia (but there is no hard and fast rule, as handles are often made of any wood that is handy - the Japanese use white oak)

[Billman]

As far as decoration on a tool to be used, below some Indian sickles from the same region (Punjab)... One older one highly decorated with a forged blade, and one new factory made one (right of image).. together with some made with an old saw blade held in a wrapped around back..

[VANDOO]

THE SICKLE AND BILLHOOK HAVE A HISTORY PREDATING THE METAL VERSION IN SOME SOCIETYS. THE OLDEST AUTHENTIC EXAMPLE I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN WAS IN THE MUSEUM AT CAIRO EGYPT. IT WAS WOOD IN SCYCLE SHAPE WITH A GROOVE ALONG THE INSIDE CURVE INSET WITH CLOSELY SET FLINT BLADES TO FORM A GOOD CUTTING EDGE.

[Billman]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE SICKLE AND BILLHOOK HAVE A HISTORY PREDATING THE METAL VERSION IN SOME SOCIETYS. THE OLDEST AUTHENTIC EXAMPLE I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN WAS IN THE MUSEUM AT CAIRO EGYPT. IT WAS WOOD IN SCYCLE SHAPE WITH A GROOVE ALONG THE INSIDE CURVE INSET WITH CLOSELY SET FLINT BLADES TO FORM A GOOD CUTTING EDGE.

Flint sickles, with a body made of antler, wood or bone, with the flints held in by resin have been found in Iron Age sites in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. Stone axes are also well known, but the billhooks appears to have first appeared in the Bronze Age, with small pruning hooks cast in stone moulds, similar to those used for bronze sickles. Bronze sickles and pruning hooks (billhooks) would appear to have originated in ancient Sumer(ia) in lower Mesopotania c 2900BC, now modern Iraq & Iran, and spread east into Egypt and Greece, and west into India.The billhook, as we know it today, appears to date from the Iron Age, and was common in Britain before the Roman occupation c 50BC. Roman billhooks, sickles and other tools are still regularly found on archelogical dig sites and are almost identical to modern versions. Up until the mid to late 19th century the small billhook, or pruning hook, would have been the tool used by all gardeners, fruit tree and wine growers for pruning etc.

[manteris1]

no marks, nice horn collar, very heavy blade and sharp, i think its from india what do you all think.................jimmy

[Billman]

Originally Posted by manteris1

no marks, nice horn collar, very heavy blade and sharp, i think its from india what do you all think.................jimmy

What type of horn is it?? (I have seen cow horn used as the ferrule on European billhooks - but I thought in India that the cow was sacred, so unlikely they woud have used its horn for tools). Buffalo (water) tends to be solid, but other types of horn - goat, sheep and some types of deer antler have hollow sections...

Identifying the origins of this only emphasises the need for provenance with a tool as certain tools are generic and found in many continents and countries..

I have built up an archive collection of several thousand images, and have over 6000 billhooks - yet I cannot identify the origins of this one with any degeree of certainty....

[kronckew]

water bufala* are commonly used to supply mozzarella cheese to a horde of hungry italians and inhabitants of other western countries who have become addicted to pizza and grilled slabs of mozzarella. it has a higher melting point than other cheeses and can be grilled or bbq'd. (some inferior non-italian 'mozzarella' is made from cow's milk - caveat emptor)

i thus imagine buff horn is fairly common in italy, as it is in nepal or india/SEA.


* - italian for the female buffalo. male buffalo milk is unsuited to making edible cheese. they are also harder to milk and the resulting milk is highly perishable, so is kept at cryogenic temperatures and used almost exclusively for making additional buffaloes.

[manteris1]

thanks, i've cleaned it and it does look european/italian, say billman how about some photo's................jimmy