weapons/fighting styles of the ohio/mississippi flatboatmen (1790-1840)?

[pallas]

ive lately been fascinated by the flatboatmen who plied the ohio and missisippi rivers in the last decade of the 18th/first 4 decades of the 19th century carrying settlers, booze, contraband and other assorted items/goods from pittsburg to natchez/new orleans and back.....these men seem to have been known for their "free for all" fighting and skills with the tomahawk and kentucky rifle.....they also had a peculiar way of offering a challenge of combat by making longwinded statements of their prowess in fighting or navigating rivers...like:

"Whoo-oop! I’m the old original iron-jawed, brass-mounted, copper-bellied corpse-maker from the wilds of Arkansaw!—Look at me! I’m the man they call Sudden Death and General Desolation! Sired by a hurricane, dam’d by an earthquake, half-brother to the cholera, nearly related to the small-pox on the mother’s side! Look at me! I take nineteen alligators and a bar’l of whiskey for breakfast when I’m in robust health, and a bushel of rattlesnakes and a dead body when I’m ailing! I split the everlasting rocks with my glance, and I squench the thunder when I speak! Whoo-oop!"


taken from mark twain's "life on the mississippi"

mike fink seemed to be the best known of these men and its not even agreed upon if he was indeed real or legend.....


anyways im in an early american history kind of mood and i figured this might be an intersting topic to touch upon.....

[Berkley]

One Mississippi flatboatman who drove off seven would-be robbers was armed only with what a biographer described as a "crab-tree club". In the struggle he received a gash over his right eye that left a scar for life as it healed. That trip to New Orleans was his first and only flatboat voyage, although he acquired a certain legendary quality himself. His name was Abraham Lincoln.

[Jim McDougall]

Extremely interesting topic Pallas!!! and there is so much history here in this country as I see in travels. Though I have been along the Mississippi and close to Natchez, I always wished I had seen the site of the famed Sandbar Fight ,September 19, 1827.....where Jim Bowie entered the world of this American folklore and mythology. This simple duel, where Bowie was not even originally a combatant, but a second, broke into a melee involving about 16 men. Bowie's deft handling of his knife despite severe wounds including being impaled on a sword, immediately put him into fabled status.

The knives of these times seem to have been variations of any number of Meditteranean style knives, and belt daggers/knives that were often simply a blade with crudely fashioned bone or wood hilt grips. Virtually nothing was thrown away in those days, and broken sword blades, filed down polearm blades, trade knife blades intended for American Indian use, and almost anything of metal that could be shaped into a blade became 'knives'.

These crude knives and often imported examples eventually led to the famed Bowie knife after that sandbar event, and it is hard to determine exactly what the original Bowie knife actually looked like. It seems generally held that the original, quite possibly the example in the Arkansas Historical Museum known as 'Bowie #1' was the original made in Washington, Arkansas in 1830 by James Black for Jim Bowie.
It is said that Black also created a heavier, wider version, with guard, clipped back point for Bowie, and this became the type more commonly known.

The simple blade and 'coffin type' hilt of Bowie #1 seems to somewhat resemble the exremely popular Green River knives in the hilt and the blade.
These sturdy , simple hilt knives became widely known from the Russell knife works in Deerfield, Massachusetts about 1832, creating an interesting market for frontier type knives of these types in the east, while the Bowie type flourished to the west.

At this time, the prominant Chouteau family of traders from St. Louis to New Orleans were importing various knife forms from England and Europe.

The incredibly embellished hyperbole described in the exploits of these colorful trappers, mountain men, flatboat men, riverboat men and gamblers is indeed the folklore of America. I very much enjoyed "The Alamo' with Billy Bob Thornton as Davy Crockett, which very well illustrated this phenomenon.
It would seem that the unbelievably inflated tales of this seemingly simple frontiersman were found as unbelievable and entertaining to him as to the general public.

These men from backwoods regions were indeed tough, but remarkably astute and well spoken in a much different parlance than typically found in the populated cities.

Berkeley, the story about Abe Lincoln is great! and it is little known that he very nearly fought a duel with sabres as well.

I remember the Mike Fink tales from the days of wearing my coonskin cap while watching Davy Crockett on TV, but not sure of whether fictional or not.

Fascinating topic, and hope we can find some examples and pictures of these various knife forms.

All best regards,
Jim

[M ELEY]

Awesome subject, indeed. Sadly to say, I don't know anything on this subject (very sad, considering I was raised in Ohio on the Cuyahoga River), but I would love to hear more tales of such. Jim, by coincidence, I just read a small biography on James Bowie and it was fascinating. Besides the Battle of the Sandbar and him killing 3 would-be assassins, he did have one rather well researched battle on a Mississippi river boat. The details from different sources vary, but what becomes clear is that it was a duel with pistols after Bowie caught a man cheating friends of his out of their cash. Both men ascended to the highest part of the ship, stood back to back with their seconds watching, took several paces and fired. The rules said that they would continue firing over the course of five, as someone counted out. Both men's first shots missed, but Bowie's second struck the man full in the chest. According to all accounts, the man fell to the deck below and then plunged over the side into the waters of the river. At least one unsubstantiated account claims the victem was Jean Lafette's illegitimate son (Lafette the pirate was friends with Bowie by all accounts). Anyway, fascinating stuff. Are there any books on the subject?

[aiontay]

Don't forget the sharpened thumbnails for eye gouging. Would that be considered an ethnographic improvised knife?

I've also read one account that shows that bayonets were used at least on one Ohio River flatboat.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mark! this topic is actually right up your alley, and I didn't know you were from the Ohio valley......at one time very much a western frontier in our country.
The topic of Jim Bowie, along with Davy Crockett and other figures of American folklore and history, is indeed fascinating, and the colorful hyperbole previously mentioned is unfortunately sometimes the nemesis of the historian. It must be remembered that this method of conveyance is often employed in oral history, which in times of profound illiteracy and particularly before developments of writing and alphabets, was the way history and tradition were preserved. With literacy, came metaphor, and this device became well known in literature, even in many instances in the translation of the Bible. In the close adherence to this literary 'style' and the mythology of the classics, virtually the only books around in early days, so followed the developing works of the storyteller and later dime novels.

In research on the the Bowie knife years ago, I acquired a copy of "The Iron Mistress", a colorful and fantastic story of this fabled frontier knife, I call it a story, rather than history as it includes fantastic tales, which served well for the later movie based on it, starring Alan Ladd.
Authors for many years struggled to find the historically based facts on Bowie and his knife, and I think that Norm Flayderman presented probably the most reliable data in his book, "The Bowie Knife", a beautifully produced book with more breathtaking photos of these and associated frontier knives than I've ever seen in one place! Coincidentally, he had just finished the book as I was doing my research, and I got my copy from him...unfortunately it is a pretty big book and I couldnt smuggle it into the 'bookmobile'

I cannot think offhand of titles that might address specifically Lafitte, but his friendship with Bowie would likely be mentioned in reliable biographies on him, and the Flayderman book, as always, has comprehensive bibliographies.

In my travels one of our favorite places is Old Washington, Arkansas, where the blacksmith shop of James Black still exists, though restored. There are resident blacksmiths still pounding out knives, and I spoke to one as he pounded on an old forge, it was almost surreal. This little town still has the antebellum houses, and dirt roads that were there are still around in places.
The blacksmith there, as he forged a red hot piece of steel, told me of James Black, the one thing to notice about his knives was that he always 'notched' his blades. This is a key note, as the Bowie brothers were involved in a number of 'enterprises' many of which were centered in New Orleans (which is why I cannot see why Bowie would not have known Lafitte). James was originally from Louisiana, and in those early days 'Tejas' was a wild Mexican frontier, exuberant from recent independance from Spain.

The reason I mention the notched blades (near the top of the back of the blade) is that this was characteristic of 'Meditteranean knives', its purpose unknown. Jim Bowie was very familiar with these knives and the techniques of the knifefighting from Spain and its ports, known as 'baratero'. The pirate king himself, Jean Lafitte, termed his nominally autonomous kingdom 'Barateria' referring to this dynamic characteristic of New Orleans in those times.

If the experience at the blacksmith shop was not surreal enough, driving into Mississippi, seeing these cities, going to the Blacksmith shop of Jean Lafitte's time in New Orleans and seeing buildings that were old by the time of Jim Bowie and Jean Lafitte was amazing. The pinnacle of it all was to visit the Alamo in San Antonio, and the incredible aura of reverence it maintains, even amidst the explosion of huge buildings amidst which it is nestled.

Aiontay, very good note on the use of the thumbnail, but I think this was more of a fighting technique than an actual weapon. Much as in 'street fighting' , there are no real rules in combat, especially hand to hand.
As noted, old bayonets were certainly present, just as many old military weapons were refurbished into all manner of tools and weapons.

It is important to remember that for all the modern technology of the times, post Revolutionary War and well into the 19th century, the bane of firearms was the lack of ammunition and powder. One of the main reasons that smoothbore firearms remained preferred by many among American Indian tribes is that powder was much easier to obtain than catridges in the later years of the 19th century after invention of percussion caps.
Good discussions on this are found in "Arming America" (Bellasiles), a controversial book, however with fascinating historical perspective, despite some seemingly politically motivated issues. Mostly the book talks about common assumptions about actual numbers of firearms in colonial America, how effectively they were used, and much emphasis on supplies etc.

For this reason in early times, the knife was essential on America's frontiers, and any old edged weapon, or even bladed tool, was crafted into ersatz forms of knife, as in the wilderness, it was depended on for utility, dressing game, and a weapon as needed. Guns were notably unreliable, and there were not blacksmiths nor gunsmiths readily available for mountain men or frontiersmen.

The flatboat men were likely better equipped, as thier very trade depended on constant visits to ports of call on the navigable rivers, and they were carrying supplies which included large numbers of imported tools and weapons from major cities.

All very best regards,
Jim

[pallas]

there where also some rather infamous bands of pirates who inhabited caves in the southern tip of illinois at the confluence of the ohio and mississippi rivers....two brothers known as the "horrible harpes" lived among them until they where kicked out for running a man tied to a horse off a cliff (which seemed to be a step too far for the pirates who where accustomed to simple murder) The Harpes made no discrimination between age or sex in their victims, often butchering anyone under the slightest provocation including babies. Some sources claim that Micajah ("big" harpe) bashed his infant daughter's head against a tree when her constant crying annoyed him. This would be one of the only crimes he would later confess genuine remorse for.

Big Harpe was shot in the back by a man named John Leiper, who was a member of the posse who was chasing the Harpes after they had killed the wife and child of Moses Stegall and burned down his cabin. The posse found the killers resting and gave a heated chase. Wiley ("little") Harpe escaped and eventually made his way to the Natchez Trace where he joined with an outlaw named Mason.. big harpe is reported to have told Moses Stigall who became impatient waiting for him to die and began to behead him with a large butcher knife "your a goddamned rough butcher, but cut on and be damned!". Stigall then stuck his head on a pole, at the location still known as "Harpe's Head," in Webster County, Kentucky.



Little Harpe eluded the authorities for some time, until allegedly being caught in an effort to get a ransom of his own on the head of an outlaw, Samuel Mason. He was captured in 1803 and hung, following his trial in January 1804. It is currently unknown if indeed this was Harpe, as reports of his crimes continued for decades after the hanging. Little Harpe was beheaded after he was hung and his head stuck on a pole outside of greenville mississippi, a town that does not now exist. After the atrocities committed by the Harpes, many members bearing the family name changed their name in some way to disguise their family heritage. Some went by "Harp" merely removing the final "E", but leaving the pronunciation the same. Others changed the name significantly. Wyatt Earp is a famous example said - though unconfirmed - to have been a member of the Harpe family.

[M ELEY]

Thanks for all the references on this obscure subject, guys.
Jim, the book I read was written by a native Texan who knew the Bowie family in the early part of the 20th century and dug through carefully documented information as well as the typical family information handed down over time. Even many of the surviving members don't question that Black invented the so-called Bowie knife, but it sounds to me that Jim was definitely the one who made it famous. The gentleman's book claims that Bowie knew Lafitte very well, using his connections on the Black Market to sell slaves. It's interesting you mention the notching in the top of the bowie knives. A few years back, I had that strange, unidentified bowie with the notched back, huge bowie blade, MOP grips, brass sheath with S Amer decorations (Gaucho on horse with lance, crane belt hook just like found on Gaucho knives). Much debate on that piece never came to a solid conclusion even among the experts (I sent it off to Mr Flayderman down in FL. He liked it very much, but was cryptic in his response about it. His exact words were, he didn't want "to get in a bidding war over it"- ) Others said Confederate, Amer Southwest, Mexican...Ended up trading it for that lion-hilt sword. sorry to drone on about it, but it was the only true bowie I ever chanced upon.
Pallas, the mere mention of river pirates gets my attention! I had never heard of the Harpe Brother and i do appreciate the information. I'll have to look into this more...

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent notes on the Harpe's Pallas!!! I had never heard of the Earp connection to these obscure characters, but do know they have certain ancestry in Kentucky.

Regions in the Appalachians and the Smokies, as well as through the entire Eastern regions is fascinating and so full of Americana and folklore. Much of our 'history' derives from America's poet laureate Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and his works were a bit more formal form of much of the folklore that became American literature.

Trying to discover more on the legendary keelboater Mike Fink (Phinck) reveals more of the common hyperbole that elevated him, Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, and other figures to almost mythological proportion. Paul Bunyan, John Henry and many others are more in this distinctly American folkore assemblage.

Mike Fink was apparantly killed in a vendatta over an accidental shooting in characteristic hijinks that prevailed among these rugged characters, and it is said it was 1823. With these keelboats moving up and down these rivers which confluenced with the larger tributaries and into the Mississippi, it stands to reason considerable piracy must have existed which the very lucrative cargoes and trade materials they carried.
******here ya go Mark!!********

Mark, I do remember that beauty of a Bowie you had, and did not know you had brought Flayderman into the loop on it! There are few people who know Bowie's or any Americana like Mr. Flayderman, always a sort of personal hero of mine and in my mind, very much like the very historical figures we're discussing. Though you gave up the Bowie....that lionhead you got aint no slouch!!! its a beauty too, and one of the most unusual I've seen....maybe you should post it again.

I once thought that it would be interesting to consider the Bowie knife a truly American ethnographic weapon. Interestingly one of the most prolific makers of Bowie knives became Wostenholm of Sheffield, England! I always wondered what the trademark I *XL meant........then found it simply meant ' I excel'!!

I never realized how much history lives in this country until I truly went on the road! and it is wonderful, and I have always loved history, and admired that of so many countries and cultures, but this is ours!! Best of all, it is a complete amalgam of all those from all over the world...now that is magnificent!

All best regards,
Jim

[pallas]

on a final note about the harpes is that they were apparently born in north carolina, the sons of a tory who fought for the british against his american neighbors...........after the war he fled west to save his own life as his neighbors burned his plantation/farm in revenge.........they were apparently of scottish ancestry although there were some in kentucky who thought they where "of some african blood" because of their "tawny appearence and tightly curled hair"........nothing is known about what happened to their father or if they where even actually born in this country or sent for when they where small children.......


they are widely known as "america's first serial killers" but even that is disputed, as some attribute that title to another obscure yet bloody frontiersman, lewis wetzel, who lead a very mysterious and violent life that was largely unknown to even those of his own time........it is suspected that he may have killed between 70 and 400 indians in his lifetime.....

[Jim McDougall]

[QUOTE=pallas]on a final note about the harpes is that they were apparently born in north carolina, the sons of a tory who fought for the british against his american neighbors...........after the war he fled west to save his own life as his neighbors burned his plantation/farm in revenge.........they were apparently of scottish ancestry although there were some in kentucky who thought they where "of some african blood" because of their "tawny appearence and tightly curled hair"........nothing is known about what happened to their father or if they where even actually born in this country or sent for when they where small children.......
{Quote}



Pallas, I was wondering about this in your earlier post, and one of the many curious anomalies that is well known in the folklore of these regions, are the people that correspond to these unusual descriptions known as 'melungeons'.

This group of people are pretty much an anthroplogical mystery and often come up in Appalachian and Kentuckian folklore.

All the best,
Jim