Mandau origin based on type of hilts?

Green · 7th March 2016, 08:00 AM

I know next to nothing about mandaus. This is one of the earliest mandaus that I bought. the blade is simple and heavily pitted . The scabbard has some nice carvings of asos and probably other creatures and vines and the wooden handle is carved probably based on dragon motif?

Can anyone explain where this mandau probably originate from? (eg Which tribe, which region of Borneo)... the antique shop lady mentioned to me it was made by 'orang ulu' in Serawak but she may be wrong because she's not an espert either. And orang ulu just meant people in the hinterland/remote place.

Also, would appreciate if anyone can give comment on the hilt . Which particular Dayak tribe made this type? I haven't seen any like this before until yesterday when by accident I saw and bought a similar hilt (much better and made from antler) at a flea market.

kai · 7th March 2016, 07:06 PM

Hello Nik,

I'm not sure when anyone has last encountered a genuine, antique mandau in any "antique" shop on Borneo. By all accounts that I'm aware of, the chances are very slim (and have been so for years if not decades).

The fittings of the example posted here are modern (i. e. non-traditional) and I don't think it makes much sense trying to narrow down its origin. Rather being an old blade in new clothes, I suspect the blade has been artificially aged.

The stag hilt seems to be of a somewhat better quality - still modern IMVHO.

Regards,
Kai

David · 7th March 2016, 09:43 PM

I am afraid i must agree with Kai. This is not an antique mandau and was most probably not made for indigenous use.

asomotif · 7th March 2016, 11:31 PM

Sorry, one more. agree with Kai and David.

Modern hilt and scabbard, considering the fancy style I guess made for those who travel.

Best regards,
Willem

Green · 8th March 2016, 03:51 AM

many thanks for the clarification! i nearn new things everyday!

VANDOO · 8th March 2016, 05:12 PM

I AGREE WITH THE ASSESSMENTS GIVEN ABOVE BUT WOULD LIKE TO FIND INFORMATION ON WHERE AND BY WHO THESE MODERN MANDAUS ARE MADE.? FROM WHAT I COULD SEE IN THE SHOPS IN SARAWAK THERE WERE MANY VARIATIONS AND DIFFERENT AGES OF MANDAUS PRESENT FOR SALE. IT APPEARED DIFFERENT PEOPLE SET UP SHOP AND MADE A PARTICULAR TYPE TO SELL AND THEN WHEN ALL SOLD MADE A DIFFERENT TYPE OR DESIGN. AS A RESULT YOU SEE THE SAME TYPES IN ALL THE SHOPS SOME THAT HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN THERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME AND SOME WITH NEW WRITTEN ALL OVER THEM. SOME ARE MADE USING TRADITIONAL DESIGNS AND SOME MADE UP SUCH AS DRAGONS, MERMAIDS AND SUCH. SOME ARE POORLY CARVED AND DECORATED AND SOME ARE MADE BY EXPERT CRAFTSMEN.
WERE SOME MADE AT SPECIFIC LONGHOUSES IN VILLAGES BY TRIBAL SWORD MAKERS FOR SALE? THESE WOULD EITHER BE TRADED FOR BY TRADERS FROM CITIES OR PERHAPS TAKEN TO THE CITIES FOR TRADE BY THE TRIBE WHEN NEEDED. THESE WOULD FALL UNDER ETHNOGRAPHIC MODERN SWORDS. SOME MAY HAVE BEEN MADE IN SHOPS IN CITIES BY DAYAK CRAFTSMEN NOT FOLLOWING TRADITIONAL PATTERNS STILL ETHNOGRAPHIC BUT NOT AS PURE. BUT A MASTER CARVER WORKING IN CITIES FOLLOWING TRADITIONAL PATTERNS AND DESIGN WOULD MORE PURE. ALL EXAMPLES MADE BY NON DAYAK PEOPLE OR MADE IN COUNTRY'S OTHER THAN BORNEO WOULD NOT BE ETHNOGRAPHIC BUT REPLICAS.

THERE IS A LARGE NUMBER OF THESE AROUND AND THEY ARE STILL BEING MADE. ONE HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO HAVE SOME INFORMATION ON WHEN, WHERE AND BY WHO THESE WERE MADE. FOR SOMEONE ON SITE TO DOCUMENT SOME OF THIS INFORMATION WHILE IT STILL EXISTS AND IS AVAILABLE WOULD BE OF BENEFIT. NO DOUBT THEY WILL BE COLLECTED BY THOSE WHO FOLLOW US SO THE INFORMATION AND HISTORY OF THESE TIMES WOULD HAVE VALUE.

THE TWO EXAMPLES STARTING THIS THREAD HAVE A SIMILAR BEAK LIKE FORM OF HANDLE IS THIS A TRADITIONAL FORM OF ANY PARTICULAR TRIBAL GROUP OR A MORE MODERN INTERPRETATION OF AN OLDER FORM?

7th March 2016, 08:00 AM	#1
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	Mandau origin based on type of hilts? I know next to nothing about mandaus. This is one of the earliest mandaus that I bought. the blade is simple and heavily pitted . The scabbard has some nice carvings of asos and probably other creatures and vines and the wooden handle is carved probably based on dragon motif? Can anyone explain where this mandau probably originate from? (eg Which tribe, which region of Borneo)... the antique shop lady mentioned to me it was made by 'orang ulu' in Serawak but she may be wrong because she's not an espert either. And orang ulu just meant people in the hinterland/remote place. Also, would appreciate if anyone can give comment on the hilt . Which particular Dayak tribe made this type? I haven't seen any like this before until yesterday when by accident I saw and bought a similar hilt (much better and made from antler) at a flea market. Attached Images

7th March 2016, 07:06 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Nik, I'm not sure when anyone has last encountered a genuine, antique mandau in any "antique" shop on Borneo. By all accounts that I'm aware of, the chances are very slim (and have been so for years if not decades). The fittings of the example posted here are modern (i. e. non-traditional) and I don't think it makes much sense trying to narrow down its origin. Rather being an old blade in new clothes, I suspect the blade has been artificially aged. The stag hilt seems to be of a somewhat better quality - still modern IMVHO. Regards, Kai

7th March 2016, 09:43 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I am afraid i must agree with Kai. This is not an antique mandau and was most probably not made for indigenous use.

7th March 2016, 11:31 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Sorry, one more. agree with Kai and David. Modern hilt and scabbard, considering the fancy style I guess made for those who travel. Best regards, Willem

8th March 2016, 03:51 AM	#5
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	many thanks for the clarification! i nearn new things everyday!

8th March 2016, 05:12 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AGREE WITH THE ASSESSMENTS GIVEN ABOVE BUT WOULD LIKE TO FIND INFORMATION ON WHERE AND BY WHO THESE MODERN MANDAUS ARE MADE.? FROM WHAT I COULD SEE IN THE SHOPS IN SARAWAK THERE WERE MANY VARIATIONS AND DIFFERENT AGES OF MANDAUS PRESENT FOR SALE. IT APPEARED DIFFERENT PEOPLE SET UP SHOP AND MADE A PARTICULAR TYPE TO SELL AND THEN WHEN ALL SOLD MADE A DIFFERENT TYPE OR DESIGN. AS A RESULT YOU SEE THE SAME TYPES IN ALL THE SHOPS SOME THAT HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN THERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME AND SOME WITH NEW WRITTEN ALL OVER THEM. SOME ARE MADE USING TRADITIONAL DESIGNS AND SOME MADE UP SUCH AS DRAGONS, MERMAIDS AND SUCH. SOME ARE POORLY CARVED AND DECORATED AND SOME ARE MADE BY EXPERT CRAFTSMEN. WERE SOME MADE AT SPECIFIC LONGHOUSES IN VILLAGES BY TRIBAL SWORD MAKERS FOR SALE? THESE WOULD EITHER BE TRADED FOR BY TRADERS FROM CITIES OR PERHAPS TAKEN TO THE CITIES FOR TRADE BY THE TRIBE WHEN NEEDED. THESE WOULD FALL UNDER ETHNOGRAPHIC MODERN SWORDS. SOME MAY HAVE BEEN MADE IN SHOPS IN CITIES BY DAYAK CRAFTSMEN NOT FOLLOWING TRADITIONAL PATTERNS STILL ETHNOGRAPHIC BUT NOT AS PURE. BUT A MASTER CARVER WORKING IN CITIES FOLLOWING TRADITIONAL PATTERNS AND DESIGN WOULD MORE PURE. ALL EXAMPLES MADE BY NON DAYAK PEOPLE OR MADE IN COUNTRY'S OTHER THAN BORNEO WOULD NOT BE ETHNOGRAPHIC BUT REPLICAS. THERE IS A LARGE NUMBER OF THESE AROUND AND THEY ARE STILL BEING MADE. ONE HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO HAVE SOME INFORMATION ON WHEN, WHERE AND BY WHO THESE WERE MADE. FOR SOMEONE ON SITE TO DOCUMENT SOME OF THIS INFORMATION WHILE IT STILL EXISTS AND IS AVAILABLE WOULD BE OF BENEFIT. NO DOUBT THEY WILL BE COLLECTED BY THOSE WHO FOLLOW US SO THE INFORMATION AND HISTORY OF THESE TIMES WOULD HAVE VALUE. THE TWO EXAMPLES STARTING THIS THREAD HAVE A SIMILAR BEAK LIKE FORM OF HANDLE IS THIS A TRADITIONAL FORM OF ANY PARTICULAR TRIBAL GROUP OR A MORE MODERN INTERPRETATION OF AN OLDER FORM?