Pappenheimer Rapiers, German, ca. 1630

Matchlock · 25th March 2009, 07:59 PM

This one was sold at Auctions Imperial one year ago. Although it was described as 'English' it was actually a German piece, the blade dated 1627. The only trouble was that the blade seemed to have been repaired in its working time.

The blade was inscribed by its maker:

ME FECIT SOLINGEN WILHELM WIRSBERG.

Michael

Matchlock · 25th March 2009, 08:03 PM

The rest.

Matchlock · 25th March 2009, 08:06 PM

The next one was also sold at Auctions Imperial, March 15, 2008.

Michael

Matchlock · 25th March 2009, 08:19 PM

And an absolutely fine and important piece retaining its original sheath, sold Bonhams, ex-Visser Collection, in 2007, to a friend of mine.

Michael

Matchlock · 5th April 2009, 06:17 PM

I owe two photos to kisak - thanks a lot, kisak!

Michael

Valjhun · 4th May 2009, 11:26 PM

What is the first sword from the left?

Muenchnen town watch?

Jim McDougall · 5th May 2009, 06:09 AM

I have been interested in why the first example shown in this thread was identified as possibly English, so I spent some time tonight checking into this.

While this example is obviously German, and does correspond with the hilt example found in "The Rapier and Small Sword 1460-1820" , A.V.B.Norman, 1980, #67. The pommel also is similar to #64 ( Norman, p.268) described as the type typically found on these 'Pappenheimers'.

The term 'Pappenheimer' seems to derive from later collectors associating this type of rapier with distinct hilt having pierced convex plates in the rings of the guard, to Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim (1594-1632) who was a distinguished cavalry commander in the German Thirty Years War. It is also suggested by Norman (op.cit. p.140) that an engraving by Wenzel Hollar of him with a sword with somewhat similar hilt being visible may be the source of the idea ("Wenzel Hollar", G.Parthey, Berlin, 1853, #1336).

For some reason it seemed to me that I had seen somewhere an illustration of a Royalist trooper carrying a rapier similar to the 'pappenheimer' so I thought it might be interesting to search out that idea. While I have been unable to locate any evidence as yet confirming that now misplaced reference, it did seem worthy of note that there were German swordsmiths in England, but I will emphasize that Wirsberg was not one of them.

There had been German swordsmiths in England since Tudor times where royal armouries employed foreign smiths particularly German. Apparantly workshops near Hounslow Heath west of London was a key location and in arrangements with King Charles I in 1629 Solingen smiths were brought to England to manufacture wares in Continental fashion.
By the time of the beginning of the English Civil Wars in 1642, these shops had certainly become well established and produced for the Royalist armies.

While this example sold at Imperial Armouries does seem distinctly German, especially the work of such a profoundly established Solingen maker, I am wondering if there were indeed 'pappenheimer' rapiers produced in England as suggested in this reference.
If so, it would seem that the pommel would have been more the globular type characteristic of English rapiers of the period.

Returning to thoughts on the term, it seems that during these times in the 17th century, swords in styles from the Continent were often termed collectively 'walloons' from what I have understood,and as previously noted, the 'pappenheimer' term perhaps became associated later. It does seem that the 'mortuary' hilts (another apparant misnomer) of mid 17th century in many cases also had pierced plates in thier hilts. I wonder if any cross influence may be reflected here?

The walloon term became more prevalent later in the 17th century with the Continental horsemans sword with simple bilobate guard, and single knucklebow.

Just some thoughts on Pappenheimers in England, and the term itself. As always I look forward to others observations as well.

All best regards,
Jim

Matchlock · 5th May 2009, 03:11 PM

Thank you so much, Jim, for this profound documentation!

May I add that Pappenheim is a small country town in Central Franconia (part of Bavaria), with the Schloss of the Pappenheim family still there.

There is a nice German saying, the English equivalent being "I know my Pappenheimers well enough", which is historically attributed to Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim referred to by you, who wished to confirm that he was proud of how firmly he could rely on his men.

Michael

Jim McDougall · 5th May 2009, 03:34 PM

Hi Michael,
Thanks for the kind words and note on Schloss Pappenheim, and it truly is interesting that this actually is a location there. Is the schloss someplace that is set up for historical viewing, possibly a museum?

It seems interesting how much influence there was between the Continent and England, and it seems that during the English Civil Wars there was a great deal of equipment besides obviously the swords, used by the forces involved. If I am not mistaken, the 'lobster tail' helmets were of Continental influence, and I believe a number of them were German.

It would be interesting to learn more on when the term 'pappenheimer' actually entered the arms lexicon referring to this type hilt. It does seem to have arisen colloquially in some degree, much as the term was applied by the Count to the reliability of his troops. Perhaps the term itself may have been applied in the same sense to the reliability of German made swords, and somehow become affixed to this hilt style.

It seems there are quite a number of these type terms applied to edged weapons, and might be interesting to develop a thread on a glossary with some etymology and history.

All the best,
Jim

kisak · 5th May 2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

What is the first sword from the left?

Muenchnen town watch?

According to the sign in the museum, it's a "värja" (sword/rapier) ca 1600, "of a type used by Pappenheim's cavalry in the Thirty Years War".

Matchlock · 5th May 2009, 07:02 PM

Exactly, Jim,

I fully agree with all your brilliant theses.

Actually Schloss Pappenheim, situated in the romantic Altmühl valley near Eichstätt, is partly open to the public but does not have a museum, at least no weapons. I was there once, on the occasion of a Thirty Years War reenactment about 15 years ago.

http://www.altmuehltal.de/pappenheim/pappenheim.htm

All the best,
Michael

Matchlock · 6th May 2009, 04:38 PM

It seems interesting how much influence there was between the Continent and England, and it seems that during the English Civil Wars there was a great deal of equipment besides obviously the swords, used by the forces involved. If I am not mistaken, the 'lobster tail' helmets were of Continental influence, and I believe a number of them were German.

Exactly as ever, Jim,

A great number of Thirty Years War lobster tail helmets were German indeed although they seem to have originated from the Oriental part of the world and are also often connected with the Polish cavalry.

I attach two details of a German lobster tail helmet (Zischägge) from the Met collections and another sold at a previous Christie's sale.

I also managed to find the portrait of Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim (1594-1632) by Wenzel Hollar, which you mentioned, as well as two other portraits of the Graf plus a self portrait of the artist, Wenzel Hollar.

Furthermore I attach a few views of the town and old castle of Pappenheim, plus two of the Pappenheimer rapiers illustrated by Norman and quoted by you.

Best wishes,
Michael

Matchlock · 6th May 2009, 04:41 PM

Sorry, Jim,

The first paragraph in my previous reply is of course a quotation from your post but I somehow spoilt it to be marked as such.

Michael

Matchlock · 6th May 2009, 07:56 PM

I just seem to have discovered what may be a small sensation:

It seems as if the above posted Pappenheimer rapier retaining its orginal scabbard, the blade engraved with the portrait of a noble man and the Latin inscription Soli Deo (and) Gloria, belonged to a guardsman of Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim (1594-1632). It is now in the collection of a friend of mine.

The portrait on the blade is very similar to the Graf Pappenheim portraits posted.

Anyway, I'll repost them.

Michael

Matchlock · 17th November 2010, 08:06 AM

Two Pappenheimer rapiers, ca. 1630, preserved at Schloss Braunfels, Northern Germany.

Author's photos (2005) and copyright.

m

25th March 2009, 08:03 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The rest. Attached Images

25th March 2009, 08:06 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The next one was also sold at Auctions Imperial, March 15, 2008. Michael Attached Images

25th March 2009, 08:19 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	And an absolutely fine and important piece retaining its original sheath, sold Bonhams, ex-Visser Collection, in 2007, to a friend of mine. Michael Attached Images

5th April 2009, 06:17 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A Variant Pappenheimer Rapier at the Army Museum Stockholm I owe two photos to kisak - thanks a lot, kisak! Michael Attached Images

6th May 2009, 04:38 PM	#12
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Pappenheim and Lobster Tail Helmets It seems interesting how much influence there was between the Continent and England, and it seems that during the English Civil Wars there was a great deal of equipment besides obviously the swords, used by the forces involved. If I am not mistaken, the 'lobster tail' helmets were of Continental influence, and I believe a number of them were German. Exactly as ever, Jim, A great number of Thirty Years War lobster tail helmets were German indeed although they seem to have originated from the Oriental part of the world and are also often connected with the Polish cavalry. I attach two details of a German lobster tail helmet (Zischägge) from the Met collections and another sold at a previous Christie's sale. I also managed to find the portrait of Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim (1594-1632) by Wenzel Hollar, which you mentioned, as well as two other portraits of the Graf plus a self portrait of the artist, Wenzel Hollar. Furthermore I attach a few views of the town and old castle of Pappenheim, plus two of the Pappenheimer rapiers illustrated by Norman and quoted by you. Best wishes, Michael Attached Images

25th March 2009, 07:59 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Pappenheimer Rapiers, German, ca. 1630 This one was sold at Auctions Imperial one year ago. Although it was described as 'English' it was actually a German piece, the blade dated 1627. The only trouble was that the blade seemed to have been repaired in its working time. The blade was inscribed by its maker: ME FECIT SOLINGEN WILHELM WIRSBERG. Michael Attached Images

4th May 2009, 11:26 PM	#6
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	What is the first sword from the left? Muenchnen town watch?

5th May 2009, 06:09 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	I have been interested in why the first example shown in this thread was identified as possibly English, so I spent some time tonight checking into this. While this example is obviously German, and does correspond with the hilt example found in "The Rapier and Small Sword 1460-1820" , A.V.B.Norman, 1980, #67. The pommel also is similar to #64 ( Norman, p.268) described as the type typically found on these 'Pappenheimers'. The term 'Pappenheimer' seems to derive from later collectors associating this type of rapier with distinct hilt having pierced convex plates in the rings of the guard, to Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim (1594-1632) who was a distinguished cavalry commander in the German Thirty Years War. It is also suggested by Norman (op.cit. p.140) that an engraving by Wenzel Hollar of him with a sword with somewhat similar hilt being visible may be the source of the idea ("Wenzel Hollar", G.Parthey, Berlin, 1853, #1336). For some reason it seemed to me that I had seen somewhere an illustration of a Royalist trooper carrying a rapier similar to the 'pappenheimer' so I thought it might be interesting to search out that idea. While I have been unable to locate any evidence as yet confirming that now misplaced reference, it did seem worthy of note that there were German swordsmiths in England, but I will emphasize that Wirsberg was not one of them. There had been German swordsmiths in England since Tudor times where royal armouries employed foreign smiths particularly German. Apparantly workshops near Hounslow Heath west of London was a key location and in arrangements with King Charles I in 1629 Solingen smiths were brought to England to manufacture wares in Continental fashion. By the time of the beginning of the English Civil Wars in 1642, these shops had certainly become well established and produced for the Royalist armies. While this example sold at Imperial Armouries does seem distinctly German, especially the work of such a profoundly established Solingen maker, I am wondering if there were indeed 'pappenheimer' rapiers produced in England as suggested in this reference. If so, it would seem that the pommel would have been more the globular type characteristic of English rapiers of the period. Returning to thoughts on the term, it seems that during these times in the 17th century, swords in styles from the Continent were often termed collectively 'walloons' from what I have understood,and as previously noted, the 'pappenheimer' term perhaps became associated later. It does seem that the 'mortuary' hilts (another apparant misnomer) of mid 17th century in many cases also had pierced plates in thier hilts. I wonder if any cross influence may be reflected here? The walloon term became more prevalent later in the 17th century with the Continental horsemans sword with simple bilobate guard, and single knucklebow. Just some thoughts on Pappenheimers in England, and the term itself. As always I look forward to others observations as well. All best regards, Jim

5th May 2009, 03:11 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you so much, Jim, for this profound documentation! May I add that Pappenheim is a small country town in Central Franconia (part of Bavaria), with the Schloss of the Pappenheim family still there. There is a nice German saying, the English equivalent being "I know my Pappenheimers well enough", which is historically attributed to Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim referred to by you, who wished to confirm that he was proud of how firmly he could rely on his men. Michael

5th May 2009, 03:34 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Hi Michael, Thanks for the kind words and note on Schloss Pappenheim, and it truly is interesting that this actually is a location there. Is the schloss someplace that is set up for historical viewing, possibly a museum? It seems interesting how much influence there was between the Continent and England, and it seems that during the English Civil Wars there was a great deal of equipment besides obviously the swords, used by the forces involved. If I am not mistaken, the 'lobster tail' helmets were of Continental influence, and I believe a number of them were German. It would be interesting to learn more on when the term 'pappenheimer' actually entered the arms lexicon referring to this type hilt. It does seem to have arisen colloquially in some degree, much as the term was applied by the Count to the reliability of his troops. Perhaps the term itself may have been applied in the same sense to the reliability of German made swords, and somehow become affixed to this hilt style. It seems there are quite a number of these type terms applied to edged weapons, and might be interesting to develop a thread on a glossary with some etymology and history. All the best, Jim

5th May 2009, 07:02 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Jim, I fully agree with all your brilliant theses. Actually Schloss Pappenheim, situated in the romantic Altmühl valley near Eichstätt, is partly open to the public but does not have a museum, at least no weapons. I was there once, on the occasion of a Thirty Years War reenactment about 15 years ago. http://www.altmuehltal.de/pappenheim/pappenheim.htm All the best, Michael

6th May 2009, 04:41 PM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Sorry, Jim, The first paragraph in my previous reply is of course a quotation from your post but I somehow spoilt it to be marked as such. Michael

6th May 2009, 07:56 PM	#14
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I just seem to have discovered what may be a small sensation: It seems as if the above posted Pappenheimer rapier retaining its orginal scabbard, the blade engraved with the portrait of a noble man and the Latin inscription Soli Deo (and) Gloria, belonged to a guardsman of Gottfried Heinrich Graf zu Pappenheim (1594-1632). It is now in the collection of a friend of mine. The portrait on the blade is very similar to the Graf Pappenheim portraits posted. Anyway, I'll repost them. Michael Attached Images

17th November 2010, 08:06 AM	#15
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Two Pappenheimer rapiers, ca. 1630, preserved at Schloss Braunfels, Northern Germany. Author's photos (2005) and copyright. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 17th November 2010 at 08:31 AM.