what type of warangka of this kris

loyah · 18th July 2016, 08:03 AM

Hi everyone,

I am new to keris. I hope that you help me identify this one old keris which I have no idea the type of its warangka which I believe is Sumatran. It has little round carvings to it maybe significant to certain area or just addition to major warangka styles. Thanks

kai · 20th July 2016, 12:01 AM

Hello Loyah, welcome to the forum!

Quote:

I hope that you help me identify this one old keris which I have no idea the type of its warangka which I believe is Sumatran. It has little round carvings to it maybe significant to certain area or just addition to major warangka styles.

Congrats, nice find - that's an interesting keris panjang!

The blade seems to have good age with expected wear to the greneng. Nice fullers! The blade exhibits some details that deviate from the typical Bangkinang style. A close-up of the base of the blade would be good - please make sure to take the pic exactly from above (vertical to the blade surface) to avoid distortions.

Looks like a really old scabbard, too. I can't remember having seen this variant before - details may help to place it though: I'd like to see close-ups from the other side, especially of the cross-piece as well as of the foot/tip. Close-ups of the hilt would be great, too.

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 20th July 2016, 11:56 AM

Welcome Loyah,

That is a nice Keris. The hilt type I have seen in various panjang dress, I recently sold one like it, have seen others but have also kept one like yours in my collections too.

I look forward to hearing what those with more experience in Sumatran Keris Panjang have to say.

Gavin

A. G. Maisey · 20th July 2016, 02:17 PM

Lose one or gain one Gavin.

With that number you're really tempting fate.

loyah · 20th July 2016, 04:04 PM

Thanks for the greetings guys,

I am aware that the forum members have very beautiful keris photos postings.
Sorry . I only have that one picture for reference for the time being,

I must say it almost 90% if not identical resembles the one that Gavin has in his collection. Rings / cincin on the sarong. Should have been that beauty under good hands.

This keris belonged to my ancestor. tracing the family lineage.. the warangka style maybe from Siak , riau , bangkinang to Minang.

almost similar style is keris kusriwa. which is said from kelantan malaysia

regards

Loyah

Marcokeris · 20th July 2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Welcome Loyah,

That is a nice Keris. The hilt type I have seen in various panjang dress, I recently sold one like it, have seen others but have also kept one like yours in my collections too.

I look forward to hearing what those with more experience in Sumatran Keris Panjang have to say.

Gavin

nice collection **

Gavin Nugent · 21st July 2016, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Lose one or gain one Gavin.

With that number you're really tempting fate.

It is but a small part of them Alan, my money is always on odds :-) It is one of my lucky numbers :-)

Gavin Nugent · 21st July 2016, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loyah

Thanks for the greetings guys,

I am aware that the forum members have very beautiful keris photos postings.
Sorry . I only have that one picture for reference for the time being,

I must say it almost 90% if not identical resembles the one that Gavin has in his collection. Rings / cincin on the sarong. Should have been that beauty under good hands.

This keris belonged to my ancestor. tracing the family lineage.. the warangka style maybe from Siak , riau , bangkinang to Minang.

almost similar style is keris kusriwa. which is said from kelantan malaysia

regards

Loyah

Loyah,

My initial searches in to this keris type origins lead me to Minang regions... but the more I looked, I also found similarities in Palembang carving too...so the more I looked, the less I knew.
Zonneveld, figure 205 is also from this group of keris, from the collection of WILLEN VAN DER POST.
Further discussions here, I am sure, in time, will reveal more about the specific origins.
To quote Robert Palmer, "Ooh, I'm looking for clues"

Gavin

A. G. Maisey · 21st July 2016, 02:49 AM

OK Gavin, lose two or gain two.

ferrylaki · 21st July 2016, 06:10 AM

i've never seen a keris panjang having tikel alis and sogokan like this before.
i'm fascinated and curious. this is a new experience for me

Gavin Nugent · 21st July 2016, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

OK Gavin, lose two or gain two.

Is safe Alan, it is an old display :-)

Jean · 21st July 2016, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

i've never seen a keris panjang having tikel alis and sogokan like this before.
i'm fascinated and curious. this is a new experience for me

Yeah, this keris panjang is different from the standard pieces from Bangkinang/ Riau from the blade (sogokan and tikel alis), the shape of the sampir (not dua hari bulan), the gandar with wide silver rings and a flat tip?, and the shape of the tapak kuda hilt. I visited Bukittinggi (Minang country) 20 years ago and remember to have seen some keris panjang with similar features (gandar with silver rings especially) so it may be correct to attribute the origin of this keris to this region.
Loyah, could you please tell us which is the area of origin of your ancestor?
Regards

loyah · 21st July 2016, 03:48 PM

Hi all, thanks for the input

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Loyah, could you please tell us which is the area of origin of your ancestor?

That is my intention. I'm from Negri Sembilan border to Malacca. In the 1700~1800 settlers from Minangkabau came to Negri Sembilan .

And There is also a saying " beraja ke Johor, bertali ke Siak dan bertuan ke Minangkabau". roughly means ~ the Kingdom is to Johore , family/ ties to Siak and to Lord to Minangkabau" (not a good English translation I think).

In one version the ancestors are from Johore, but the kris points otherwise.
The keris is family heirloom kept by a distant family member. Malays are quite protective of their family heirloom. that's why I have very limited access to the item. Need some kind of foundation to persuade them to explore family history.

Regards

Jean · 21st July 2016, 08:03 PM

Loyah,
Thank you for the interesting family history. A Malaysian origin also crossed my mind for this keris, may be some of our Malaysian members could comment on it?

Regards

kai · 22nd July 2016, 10:25 PM

Hello Gavin,

Another example will certainly help the discussion - please add close-ups (hilt, scabbard crosspiece & stem, and base of blade)!

Regards,
Kai

Gustav · 28th July 2016, 04:59 PM

It is a Minang Keris Panjang, and most probably a quite old one, pre-19th cent. or even earlier. This could be a blade for which Minang were famous - "At Menancabo excellent poniards made, called creeses; best weapons of all Orient" (Argensola, 1609). Marsden is a good lecture on this subject.

Another variant of this type of Sampir posted recently here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21714

Regarding this Sampir style Dave Henkel a while ago wrote:

"Properly speaking this sampir style in Kelantan is known as a sampir "pucuk kacang". My understanding at this point is that the term Ku Sriwa is an attribution to a group of kerises with this style of sheath to an aristocractic Kelantanese of that name. Ku (Tengku) Sriwa is supposed to have lived around the turn of the 20th century and is reported to be an historic figure."

18th July 2016, 08:03 AM	#1
loyah Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3	what type of warangka of this kris Hi everyone, I am new to keris. I hope that you help me identify this one old keris which I have no idea the type of its warangka which I believe is Sumatran. It has little round carvings to it maybe significant to certain area or just addition to major warangka styles. Thanks Attached Images

20th July 2016, 11:56 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Welcome Loyah, That is a nice Keris. The hilt type I have seen in various panjang dress, I recently sold one like it, have seen others but have also kept one like yours in my collections too. I look forward to hearing what those with more experience in Sumatran Keris Panjang have to say. Gavin Attached Images

20th July 2016, 02:17 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	Lose one or gain one Gavin. With that number you're really tempting fate.

20th July 2016, 04:04 PM	#5
loyah Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3	Thanks for the greetings guys, I am aware that the forum members have very beautiful keris photos postings. Sorry . I only have that one picture for reference for the time being, I must say it almost 90% if not identical resembles the one that Gavin has in his collection. Rings / cincin on the sarong. Should have been that beauty under good hands. This keris belonged to my ancestor. tracing the family lineage.. the warangka style maybe from Siak , riau , bangkinang to Minang. almost similar style is keris kusriwa. which is said from kelantan malaysia regards Loyah

21st July 2016, 02:49 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	OK Gavin, lose two or gain two.

21st July 2016, 06:10 AM	#10
ferrylaki Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 285	i've never seen a keris panjang having tikel alis and sogokan like this before. i'm fascinated and curious. this is a new experience for me

21st July 2016, 08:03 PM	#14
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Loyah, Thank you for the interesting family history. A Malaysian origin also crossed my mind for this keris, may be some of our Malaysian members could comment on it? Regards

22nd July 2016, 10:25 PM	#15
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Gavin, Another example will certainly help the discussion - please add close-ups (hilt, scabbard crosspiece & stem, and base of blade)! Regards, Kai

28th July 2016, 04:59 PM	#16
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,247	It is a Minang Keris Panjang, and most probably a quite old one, pre-19th cent. or even earlier. This could be a blade for which Minang were famous - "At Menancabo excellent poniards made, called creeses; best weapons of all Orient" (Argensola, 1609). Marsden is a good lecture on this subject. Another variant of this type of Sampir posted recently here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21714 Regarding this Sampir style Dave Henkel a while ago wrote: "Properly speaking this sampir style in Kelantan is known as a sampir "pucuk kacang". My understanding at this point is that the term Ku Sriwa is an attribution to a group of kerises with this style of sheath to an aristocractic Kelantanese of that name. Ku (Tengku) Sriwa is supposed to have lived around the turn of the 20th century and is reported to be an historic figure."